Posts Tagged ‘dinosaurs and man’

CROUCHING DRAGONS, HIDDEN DINOSAURS PART 3; CAN MAN, DINOSAUR, TRUTH AND SCIENCE CO-EXIST?

Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Nov 29 2014

BY CHRIS PARKER COPYRIGHT NOVEMBER, 2014

Isaiah 30:6
“This is God’s message about the animals of the southern desert: “The ambassadors travel through dangerous country, where lions live and where there are poisonous snakes and flying dragons. They load their donkeys and camels with expensive gifts for a nation that cannot give them any help.”

PART 1 of This Series

This is Part 3 of an article that almost literally would never have an end. Part 1 “Crouching Dragon, Hidden Dinosaurs-How Evolutionary Science Hides Historical Man and Dinosaur Interaction in Plain Sight” was written back in December 2011 and Part 2 was written in July, 2012. What happens is that I collect the data over time and eventually sit down and write the article. There is usually quite a bit of procrastination involved. This may be a little confusing; THIS IS PART 3 OF THE “CROUCHING” Series.

Unfortunately due to the number of Photos I’ve had to split Part 3 into 3 Pages. Follow? Part 1 and 2 of the SERIES were long, single paged articles.

The theme of all three of these articles is that 1) the non-coexistence of man and animals that science now calls dinosaurs somehow became an important Darwinian meme. 2) that the potential connection between the dragons of old and dinosaurs of old should be obvious and 3) that the reason it is perhaps not so obvious is that there has been a successful campaign by the scientific paradigm and other interested parties to obscure the truth.

Why? Dinosaurs serve as an Darwinist/Materialist mascot and appear to support the idea that the world is millions of years old. There is of course a great contrast in the timescales derived from the Bible for the earth’s existence (thousands of years) and that of modern science (billions of years). The mysterious, extinct, creatures science calls dinosaurs could make even some devout Christians wonder just how they fit into a young earth and into the Genesis account and they are a cornerstone in the belief system of some who believe that dinosaurs and other evidence provide clear evidence of biblical error and scientific ignorance.

As a consequence the paradigm is supported in the way most paradigms are supported; until they are proved with overwhelming evidence to be erroneous; supporting evidence is embraced and trumpeted, contrary evidence is suppressed, ignored and/or ridiculed. This is not so much an evolution/Darwin mode of behavior—it is human behavior.

One recent case in point. Scott Wolter is a forensic geologist and host of an alternative history program on H2 called “America Unearthed”. He is willing to look at out of place artifacts that academia can tell is fake from 100,000 mile away simply because they don’t fit the paradigm. I was watching his investigation of the Tucson relics (The Desert Cross Episode) last night; a group of lead artifacts found in Arizona in 1924. This group of swords, picks, shovels and crosses were found embedded in a type of natural cement that they had to be pried out of.

The artifacts contained symbols and Roman numerals indicating that they were from 800A.D. Controversy has swirled around the objects since their discovery and the discoverer was thought by many to be a fraud. The most compelling evidence against their genuineness is an etching of a sauropod dinosaur on one of the pieces. Case closed, right?

After testing the metal, investigating the symbols and Roman letters, examining the crystalline build up which they concluded would take hundreds of years to form etc. –he concluded that the artifacts were genuine. He then chided academia for ignoring the artifacts which being pre-Columbian would have collided with the paradigm. Oh, and what of the dinosaur which had troubled him greatly?
One line.
Oh, the creature has a forked tongue and I’ve never heard of a dinosaur with a forked tongue-so we’ve decided that it is a lizard? Who is it who actually knows anything about dinosaur soft tissue including their tongues? The “lizard” marked to show the lines more clearly is shown here.

Here are a few other examples where the paradigm did not understand the words that were coming out of the mouth of history.

Ancient Ming Dynasty Chinese Landscape Painter Memorializes Some Dinosaurs

Read the Remainder of this Article Here

Pueblo Peoples Ancient Dinosaur Petroglyph Photographed in New Mexico?

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Oct 24 2012


A few days ago I received a note from Jeremy Springfield who was in New Mexico on a kind of archaeological mission when he came across an apparently “ancient” petroglyph of a long necked dinosaur. His note follows but I was curious as to whether or not the fossils of long necked sauropods or similar dinosaurs had been found in New Mexico.

As it turns out New Mexico is one of the geographical areas in the U.S. where the highest number and diversity of dinosaur fossils is found, no doubt due to the desert like climate and lack of anything else to do but to dig. Sauropod fossils including some of the largest ever found have been discovered in New Mexico.

Coincidentally perhaps, one of the first images I came across with respect to New Mexico Dimosaurs was a depiction on the New Museum of Natural History and Science’s website depicting seismosaurus- in a pose that looks quite similar to the petroglyph. That comparison is shown below within Jeremy’s note-but first a bit on sauropods in New Mexico…. s8int.com

From About.com

“Any state with as many dinosaur fossils as New Mexico is sure to yield the remains of at least a few sauropods (giant, long-necked, elephant-legged plant eaters). Diplodocus and Camarasaurus were first identified elsewhere in the U.S., but the first specimen of the 30-ton Alamosaurus was discovered in New Mexico and named after this state’s Ojo Alamo formation.”

From New Mexico Museum of Natural History

New Mexico Super Giants – part of Dinosaur Century only at the New Mexico Museum of Natural History & Science

ALBUQUERQUE, NM – April 12, 2012 -In the small village of San Ysidro, near Cuba, NM, one of the longest dinosaurs that ever walked the Earth was discovered. His name is Camarasaurus, he measures 55 feet long and is April’s featured dinosaur as part of the New Mexico Museum of Natural History & Science Dinosaur Century Exhibit.

THE DISCOVERIES:

1979—Seismosaurus discovered

In 1979, Arthur Loy and Jan Cummings were hiking in the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) area called the Ojito, northwest of Albuquerque. Loy spotted the large bones first and casually called to his friend, “Come see what you make of this.” Cummings recalls the event: “I instantly recognized from thirty feet the obvious vertebrae of a large dinosaur. The articulated vertebral column looked like a huge chicken neck laying half in and half out of sandstone.”

For fear of the precious fossils being vandalized, Cummings and Loy kept their find secret, only sharing it with a small group of friends. In 1985, with increased recreational activity in the Ojito, they reported their awesome find to the BLM and the newly-established New Mexico Museum of Natural History. Excavation by a Museum crew led by then Curator of Paleontology David Gillette uncovered the partial skeleton of a huge new sauropod, later named Seismosaurus (“[earth]-shaking lizard”), one of the longest dinosaurs in the world, with a full body length of 110 feet.’

Possible Pueblo Culture Dinosaur Petroglyph Photographed in New Mexico Copy Right 2012 by Jeremy Springfield



Photo: Jeremy Springfield’s cropped photo compared with drawing of Seismosauras from New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science

On a trip to Hidden Mountain, just outside of Los Lunas, New Mexico, on October 20th, 2012, I took pictures of what is possibly a dinosaur figure petroglyph. This is found on a mesa about 16 miles west of Los Lunas, and requires more than a mile’s hike just to reach the foot of the mesa. The mesa contains scattered Native American art, contemporary defacements from the rare inconsiderate visitors, as well as evidence of ancient Hebrew visitation (definitely non-Mormon, FYI), and ancient scattered ruins / shelters on the summit.

The attached photos were taken on the south-facing ridge of the mesa’s summit, about 20 feet down from the ridge itself. The stone itself is quite protected from defacements and contemporary “tags” due to its difficult to reach location, which is only accessible by a perilous ledge some 14 inches wide that drops to a steep and deadly slope to the foothills some 400+ feet below.

I went for a day’s trip to photograph and film the area due to the ancient Hebrew decalogue stone that is on the mesa, and an apparant “star chart” dating to B.C. that is also found on the northern face of the summit. I was not expecting to see anything saurian in nature by way of petraglyphs.

I do not know if that is indeed the case, but please consider the animal depicted to the left of the saurian-like creature.

It definitely does not look saurian in nature, providing a great contrast. On a stone just to the right of the one with the saurian-like image is found the very deer-like animal — which was the reason for my initial decision to brave the very dangerous ledge to photograph it. I could not see the saurian image from my original vantage point, so I was surprised when I got out to the deer-image and looked to the left.

This is near the Isleta Indian Reservation, home of the Tewa Indians. I have no idea if they have any art or mythology concerning any creatures that could be considered saurian in nature.

Anyhow, I present these to you for consideration. Thanks for your time and may your efforts to promote the truth find favor with God and man. Jeremy Springfield Oct. 23, 2012

Other Native American Dinosaur Petroglyphs

Thanks Jeremy for sending that along to us. Very Interesting! of course we have had quite a number of prior posts indicating that the indigenous people of the Americas were familair with dinosaurs including:

Did Ancient Americans Ride the Parasaurolophus Dinosaur or Did They Just Exaggerate the Size of Their Sheep? featuring a petroglyph from the
Annual report of the Bureau of American Ethnology to the secretary…..1886.

this petroglyph clearly shows the ancient men riding the backs of huge animals and the glyph apparently includes a ladder for the purposes of climbing aboard.

Hey Loren Coleman, World Famous Cryptozoologist; Can You Hear Me Now!?

Church of Darwin, Crypto, s8int.com, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Oct 14 2012


Photo: Material for a later post; African, out of place and time art depicts pterosaurs and ceratopsians? Maybe eyewitnesses are still seeing some of these creatures over America and around the world. Note the keeled sternums on the pterosaurs.
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By Chris Parker

As usual it seems, I’m working on story about the historical proofs in ancient art that pterosaurs ruled ancient skies-and still do. I was looking for that Jonathan Whitcomb quote about his estimate of the number of modern eyewitness accounts of pterosaur sightings in the U.S. (1,400). Jonathan Whitcomb is the author of “Live Pterosaurs in America” and several other books on the subject of living pterosaurs.

Apparently Mr. Whitcomb’s estimate and the fact that Mr. Whitcomb is a creationist raised Loren Coleman’s ire. In a blog post entitled “Creationist Imagines Pterosaurs Soaring Over America”. Mr. Coleman takes aim at the mere notion that living pterosaurs still exist. He ties the whole thing to evolution and makes the claim that in calling himself a “cryptozoologist” Mr. Whitcomb is hiding the fact that he is actually a creationist.

Apparently the very tony science of cryptozoology is careful about its membership. But hasn’t Mr. Coleman ever considered why he always sits alone at those scientific conferences?

I confess that I’m always a bit nonplussed that the main function of sites like CryptoMundo is apparently to debunk cryptozoological sightings? Probably most of these types of things are ripe for debunking but you’d think the one place that alleged pterosaur sightings would get a hearing is on sites like Cryptomundo.com.

Has Mr. Coleman never investigated such accounts himself or has he as the world’s foremost cryptozoologist decided not investigate such silly claims while going out on investigations of bigfoot and the giant, bushy tailed, giant monkeys he researched in Albany, Kentucky in 1973?

Mr. Coleman wrote:

“According to Whitcomb, a substantial number are not from hoaxes, insanity, or misidentifications; they are most likely living pterosaurs,” says their press release.

Wherein lies the insanity here?

Cryptozoology used in the support of extreme, unsupportable theories of creationism is unscientific and, perhaps, worse.”

Ah, it’s the creationist part that bothers Mr. Coleman–surely it’s not the extraordinary claims?

My Own Special Encounter with Mr. Coleman, World Famous Cryptozoologist

This entire post is actually not about pterosaurs at all but about my Sherlock Holmes like identification of Monckton’s Gazeka.


Back in 2009 I wrote a “brilliant” post about the s8int.com identification of Monckton’s Gazeka, a problem/musytery that had mystified/intrigued zoologists, paleontologist and cryptozoologists since 1910 (Even Christian cryptozoologists).

See back in 1910 the Stephens Point, Wisconsin Gazette published a syndicated story about a giant, prehistoric appearing creature in the “wilds of New Guinea”.

According to the article, a prehistoric monster much larger than an elephant had been discovered and encountered not by common folks like me and you, but by scientists.

In addition, to the giant monster,the scientists had come across a “marvelous race of pigmies” who averaged just over four feet in height.

According to the article; the expedition was sent out by a committee appointed by the British Ornithologist’s union to explore the great Snow mountains in Dutch New Guinea, and consists of several famous scientists, headed by Walter Goodfellow, the naturalist.”

“According to the official reports, the Gazeka is of gigantic size and fearsome aspect. It is black and white striped, has the nose of a tapir and “a face like the devil.”

Among the English inhabitants of the island, the animal is known as Monckton’s Gazeka, in honor of Mr. C. A. W. Monckton, a former explorer In New Guinea, who first reported its presence in the mountains.

Mr. Monckton, during his ascent of Mount Albert Edward, in the west of British New Guinea, discovered the huge footprints and other indications of the very recent presence of some tremendous monster that had evidently been prowling on the grassy plains surrounding the lakes on the summit at an elevation of about 12,500 feet.

He followed the trail all day, and came upon the monster at dusk, just as it was devastating a settlement of the pigmies.

The little natives were screaming and running for their lives, although they turned every now and again to aim their poisoned arrows at the brute.

Monckton let fire as soon as he was able to get in a proper position, and the huge Gazeka at once turned upon him. As it reared upon its hind legs and pawed the air it looked to the hunter as big as a house, standing fully 25 feet high.

Two of Monckton’s bullets seemed to take effect, as a stream of blood flowed freely from the animal’s shoulder, but before Monckton was able to reload the animal turned and fled. By that time it was too dark to follow him, and Monckton never had another opportunity to renew his pursuit.”

Since 1910 many have speculated as to the identity of the creature that is now known as Monckton’s Gazeka. My post was written back in 2009 because the 1910 Newspaper article had published a photo showing the giant footprint of Monckton’s Gazeka, along with a photo of one of the pygmies in order to provide some idea of the size of the “Gazeka” print. No doubt, the scientists who took the picture hoped that some time in the future the huge footprint could be identified.


In 2009, we came across a picture of a footprint of diprotodon, published in 2009, some 99 years after the Stevens Point Gazette article. That picture was printed in among other places the “Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology”, September 2009 titled:

Diprotodontid Footprints from the Pliocene of Central Australia”, Page 867

The footprint picture from 2009 matched the footprint picture of Monckton’s Gazeka-then a mystery creature printed in a newspaper 99 years ago.

Someone was suitably impressed and forwarded a link to my article to Cryptomundo.

It was then that I heard from Mr. Coleman, world’s foremost cryptozoologist and keeper of the faith-I thought perhaps to congratulate me cryptozoologist to crypto-zoo-archaeologist.

He wrote:

I may move this to a new posting, but I don’t understand how this is anything more than a circular argument? Doesn’t this merely increase the level of speculation but ends up back where this material lead before, to theorized dino alive in PNG?

I don’t see how anything is “positively identified.” Are you one of the authors of this examination?

Am I missing something here?

Thank you

Loren Coleman

Well, yes Loren, you are “missing something”. It’s because I’m a Christian/creationist isn’t it? This is the kind of thing cryptozoologists are supposed to get excited about. If it helps Gazeka has a big foot?

See Loren, one picture is from 1910. It is a picture of a foot print of a mystery creature then dubbed “Monckton’s Gazeka”. They didn’t know what the creature actually was (but some scientists speculated that it was Diprototon) but scientists at that time collected photographs for future study and identification. (The caption under the photo of the Pygmy and print is actually: Enormous foot of Gazeka “reconstructed” from recent tracks.)

Then, 99 years later, scientists printed an apparently unrelated photo of diprotodon in a Journal. Now, I believe that I have found a striking similarity between the 1910 mystery footprint -photo/reconstruction of the recent tracks- and the 2009 Journal of Vetebrate Paleontology photo of diprotodon’s pes–the back footprint. (In the photo above right, the footprint labeled “C” is from the Journal in 2009–the photos of the Pygmy and the footprint on the right of the picture are from the 1910 newspaper article).

So, Mr. Coleman do you hear me now? Do you see how that’s not circular? Circular would be dating rocks by the fossils embedded and then dating the fossils by the type of rock or saying that survival of the fittest is where the fittest creatures survive.

Crypto-Zoo-Archaeological Mysteries Challenge Conventional Histories. The Ceratopsian Dinosaur and the Elephant in Ancient South America?

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Aug 06 2012


by Chris Parker, Copyright 2012

Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength it has in its loins, what power in the muscles of its belly! Its tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of its thighs are close-knit. Its bones are tubes of bronze, its limbs like rods of iron. It ranks first among the works of God…Job 40

 

 

Ceratopsian Dinosaurs in Ancient South America?

Evidence indicating the historical presence of ceratopsian dinosaurs in South America within the last 1,000 years would be controversial for at least two reasons; one, ceratopsian dinosaurs are thought by modern science to have been extinct for 65 million years and two, science at most only recognizes the presence of one type of ceratopsian dinosaur on that entire continent.

Ceratopsian dinosaurs were, vegetarian, quadruped, frilled and horned dinosaurs whose fossils have been found primarily in North America, Asia and Europe. Incidentally, they also had tails like a cedar; Certainly much thicker than that of the hippo which some believe is described in the book of Job.

Unusual identifying features for this dinosaur include the rostral bone which gives its face a beak like appearance and the jugal bones which scientists most often depict as bones protruding from the side of the animals face. Ceratopsia is derived from the Greek for “horned face”.

Only one species has been identified from fossils in South America, Notoceratops and the scant fossils upon which that tentative identification was based have since been lost.

There is however a narrow strip of land between North and South America called the Isthmus of Panama, known in the past as the Isthmus of Darien, containing the country of Panama and the Panama Canal. According to current scientific belief, that land bridge was formed three million years ago, after the extinction of the dinosaurs.

Artifacts indicating that ceratopsian dinosaurs were living as the same time as man on the continent of South America would: call into question the entire evolutionary/materialistic time frame for evolution and the extinction of dinosaurs; prove that ceratopsians also lived on the Southern continent and calling into question the supposed timing of the formation of the Isthumus of Panama; provide an answer to the question that paleontologists have been debating as to whether or not ceratopsians had “cheeks” which covered their jugal bone formations or whether they were “cheekless” having the bones protrude as horns and/or some type of defense mechanism.

If ceratopsians indeed had cheeks which covered the jutting jugal bone they certainly would have a wide, almost smiling mien which would differ signifcantly from the way modern science now depicts them. If there are multiple South American artifacts indicating the presence of ceratopsians in South America, then why haven’t more fossils of the dinosaurs been found?

A Startling Artifact Depicting a South American, Short Frilled, Vegetable Eating Ceratopsian?


“The ceratopsians are largely subdivided into two groups: the long-frilled and the short-frilled dinosaurs. Largely identical to each other – short but powerful legs, robust bodies, tortoise beak-like jaws and a varied number of horns – they had either a shorter, more plain frill with smaller openings that didn’t extend beyond the dinosaur’s neck and shoulders (the short-frilled dinosaurs) or a longer frill with larger internal openings that extended further beyond the shoulders, occasionally possessing spikes of various length on its end.”…Walking with Dinosaurs Wikia.com

Ecuador is engaged in the process of “repatriating” 5,000 pre Columbian artifacts from Ecuador’s historic past which have been obtained either legally or illegally and which have been scattered around the world to museums and private collections. Recently elements of the Ecuadorian government sued to stop an international auction featuring a number of pre Columbian artifacts that they allege are from Ecuador. In turn, several auction have sued Ecuador claiming that the artifacts were obtained legally.

The artifact shown above right was among the objects for which Ecuador seeks a return. This pre Columbian artifact from ancient Ecuador appears to depict one of the short frilled, ceratopsian dinosaurs. It has a short frill and is depicted eating vegetation.


From the angle of the photo, the rostral bone depiction is not strong but still evident as the middle of the mouth is closer to the observer. In terms of cheeks vs no cheeks the artist came down firmly on the cheek school, depicting the cheeks totally subsuming the jugal bones on the side of the face giving the animal a wide, “grinning” mouth.

There is another visible feature in this depiction which although not dispositive of all other theories would tend to support the identification of the creature as a ceretopsian—or else cast some doubt.

That’s right! I’m talking about the creatures toes. See the photo above, right. The artist clearly depicts this animal as having five toes on the front feet (manus). But, what have paleontologists found with respect to the manus and pes (forefeet and hindfeet) of the short frilled, ceratopsian dinosaurs?

Among the short frilled ceratopsians were; protoceratops, monoceratops, leptoceratops and centrosaurus. The diagram represents one of centrosaurus’s forefeet.


“McCrea also conceded that some ceratopsians had five toes on the forefoot and four toes on the hindfoot and therefore would also be capable of leaving similar footprints.] The best known ceratopsians were known from strata more recent than that which preserved Tetrapodosaurus, however more recent discoveries have pushed the age range of ceratopsians back into ages comparable to that of Tetrapodosaurus. Nevertheless, McCrea supported the ankylosaur interpretation”…… Wikipedia on the question of who left the Abyssal/Gates tracks


“Protoceratops held its head low for grazing, using its parrotlike beak to snip off low leaves, which were swallowed whole, since the teeth were of no use for chewing. Its front feet had five toes” Quote Source

In short, we have a pre Columbian depiction of a possible short frilled, ceratopsian dinosaur some 65 million years after their extinction according to the current scientific paradigm, eating vegetation (what mythical dragons eat vegetation), with the requisite number of toes/fingers potentially answering a question regarding cheeks that has been argued for some time.

But is this a one off?

Corroborating South American Ceratopsia Depictions?

According to wikipedia, the name Ceratopsia was coined by Othniel Charles Marsh in 1890 to include dinosaurs possessing certain characteristic features, including horns, a rostral bone, teeth with two roots, fused neck vertebrae, and a forward-oriented pubis.

Two years prior to that, in 1888, Popular Science Monthly had an interesting article on whistles entitled, “Whistles, Ancient and Modern” by M. L. Gutode.

In the passage describing the artifact we want to examine he writes: “Seeing that so much can be done with such rude means, it is not strange that the whistle was a well-known instrument in antiquity. The old Peruvians were past masters in the fabrication of whistles.

They made them in great numbers, of earth, and ornamented with various designs and figures of animals. The porcelain-factory at Sèvres (Fig. 1) possesses two specimens of their workmanship, one of which resembles a nightingale; and, when filled with water, it produces a kind of warbling. There is an instrumental museum at the Paris Conservatory of Music, which is open to the public on Thursday afternoons.

It was founded by Clapisson, and in the beginning consisted only of a single collection — of whistles. This was, moreover, a most curious collection, comprising whistles of all ages and all countries, of terra-cotta, copper, ivory, hard stone, etc., some of which were.”


FIG. 1.?—?ANCIENT PERUVIAN EARTHEN WHISTLES. Nos. 1 and 2, figure of an animal, in face and in profile. No. 3. another form (From specimens in the Sèvres Museum.)

remarkable as specimens of invention and workmanship. Unfortunately, this collection was scattered to the winds at an auction-sale twenty years ago, and the conservatory has not preserved any part of it ; but there are still a great many curiosities in the instrumental museum — serpents in the most distressing shapes, horns and trumpets of crystal, flutes of porcelain, fiddles of faience, Alpine horns, a bassoon of such extraordinary adjustment that it is a day’s work to dismount it; and many other most curious contrivances for producing melodies and accompaniments.”… Popular Science Monthly at Wikipedia

Wouldn’t you be curious to see some of those “serpents in the most distressing shapes”?
Mr. Gutode suggests that the depiction on the far left is of a nightingale but keeping in mind that the ceratopsian order had not yet been named its no wonder that he didn’t consider a short frilled ceratopsian dinosaur. However, I think that’s a better identification than the nightingale.


From this view of the whistle we can see the beak caused by the placement of the rostral bone and as well we see the wide mouth caused by the interior jugal bones on each side of the head. We offer some head shots of modern short frilled ceratopsians for comparison sake.

Photo: Leptoceratops top left and bottom left, protceratops, bottom right.It’s worth noting that Ecuador, the source of our first artifact is only about 750 miles from Panama and the land Bridge between North and South America and that Peru, the source of this artifact, shares a border with Ecuador.
 

 

Bird-Headed Figure Whistle, 8th or 9th century Mexico, Veracruz

Finally, on our brief survey of pre Columbian artfacts depicting ceratopsian dinosaurs is this interesting artifact. The Metropolitan Museum of New York has a ceramic piece in its collection which it describes as bird-headed. It’s a ceramic 20.25 inches high, a part of the Michael C. Rockeller Memorial Collection donated to the museum in 1963.

The artifact is pre Columbian dated to the 8th 0r 9th century A.D. from Veracruz, Mexico.



The head features a bird-like beak and indications of the rostral bone characteristic of ceratopsians. It has a short frill, and has cheeks wide enough to accommodate the jugal hornlike facial projections also a characteristic of ceratopsian dinosaurs.

 

 

 

 

Crypto-Zoo-Archaelological Indications of Elephants in Pre Columbian South America

In viewing this artifact and while reading these pieces on elephants in South America it is important to realize that many female elephants do not have tusks and that tusklessness occurs in male elephants as well.

Science seems to be fragmented on the idea of elephants in the Americas in recent times but will allow elephants down to 10,000 years ago in South America. The problem is, there is evidence of their existence here in North America and in South America as well within the last 1,000 years or even later.

A species of ungulate believed to be ancestral to elephants and which supposedly became extinct more than 23 million year s ago is a possible answer to a question raised by a pre Columbian artifact presumably depicting some type of local fauna.

Recent Survival Of The Elephant In The Americas William Corliss, Science Frontiers OnLine
No. 68: Mar-Apr 1990


Photo:Mayan “elephant motif”.

“Elephants were supposed to have disappeared from the America about 10,000 years ago as the Ice Ages waned. This date is another of those “consensus” scientific facts that no one dares challenge if he or she wishes to get published or win research grants. Although this subject remains “closed off” in normal scientific intercourse, there remain tantalizing hints that elephants roamed the Americas until very recently – perhaps even a few hundred years ago!

The following snippets are culled from two articles written by G. Carter, Texas A&M, now emeritus, but always heretical:

1. Numerous folk memories of the elephamt were retained by American Indians.
2. A mastadon was killed, cooked, and eaten by humans in Ecuador circa 1500 BC.
3. Indians told Thomas Jefferson that elephants could still be seen in the region of the Great Lakes.
4. In Florida, a cache of extinct animals, including elephants, was carbon-dated at 2000 BP.
5. Elephant heads are prominent in art and sculpture from Mexico, Central American, and northern South America.

(Carter, George F.; “A Note on the Elephant in America,” and “The Mammoth in American Epigraphy,” Epigraphic Society, Occasional Publications, 18:90 and 18:213, 1989.) ‘

Sitchin’s Elephant


An Elephant Among the Wheels“Jalapa, a gem of a town, is about two hours’ drive from Veracruz (where the Spanish Conquistador Hernan Cortes landed in 1519).

Its museum is undoubtedly second only to the famed one in Mexico City; but unlike Mexico City’s which displays artifacts from all over the country, the Jalapa one exhibits only locally discovered artifacts — predominantly Olmec ones.

Dramatically and effectively displayed in an innovative setting, the Museum boasts several colossal stone heads as well as other stone sculptures. It also displays smaller objects found at Olmec sites; among them, in special display showcases, are what are considered to be Olmec “toys.” They include animals mounted on wheels — a visual and evidentiary negation of the common claim that the people of Mesoamerica (and America in general) were unfamiliar with the wheel.

And included in the same display case were elephants — “toys” made of clay.

Gone – Where and Why? I, and some of my fans who accompanied me, saw them on previous visits to the Museum.
BUT when I (and again some of my fans with me) was there recently — in December 1999 — the elephants were nowhere in sight!

I could find no one in authority to obtain an explanation from. But that the elephants were once there was a fact indeed, here is a photograph of one, shot on a previous visit:

Now, here is the significance of this small artifact: There are no, and never have been, elephants in the Americas. There are and have been elephants in Africa. And a depiction of an elephant could have been made only by someone who has seen an elephant, i.e. someone who has been to Africa!”

 
Aspire Auction Pre Columbian Coati Muni—Or Elephant?


Recently an auction house specializing in ancient artifacts had this pre Columbian artifact for sale at one of its auctions.
Just for information purposes it eventually sold for $161 dollars which is the kind of price you’re going to realize if your ancient artifact looks like a dinosaur or even, God forbid an elephant which is out of time and place.

 


I would tend to believe that an actual depiction of a pre Columbian coati mundi would have fetched more.

The artifact is small; approximately 4 x 5 x 3.5 inches and is described as a “ Pre-Columbian Coati Mundi Head Fragment “., The piece is terracotta and hollow and is further described by the auction house as having “slit eyes” and an “extended nose”..

 



The South American Coati Mundi is a relative of the raccoon and is common in South America. It is also known as the Quati. Their coloration is variable. Unfortunately, coatis don’t have the nose or the ears for this artifact. One is pictured here along with a front view of the artifact.

 

 

 

Pyrotherium, another possibility over coati mundi?
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pyrotherium (‘fire beast’) is an extinct genus of South American ungulate, of the order Pyrotheria, that lived in what is now Argentina, during the Early Oligocene.(between 43 annd 23 million years ago) It was named “Fire Beast” because the first specimens were excavated from an ancient volcanic ashfall.

The vaguely elephant-like Pyrotherium was 3 m (10 ft) long and 1.50 m (5 ft) tall at the shoulders, with a weight up to 3500 kg (3.85 tons). Its heavy body was carried by robust legs. Pyrotherium also had a short trunk on its snout, and two pairs of flat, forward-facing tusks in the upper jaw, with a single pair in the lower jaw.


Photo: Left, Restoration of the head by Robert Bruce HorsfallPossible South American descendants of the xenungulates, the complete study of the tarsus of Pyrotherium fails to support this relationship. In one study, derived characters were not seen in any mammal examined except the embrithopod Arsinoitherium from the Tertiary of Africa.[3] Whether this is due to common ancestry, or to the unusual mode of locomotion used by these animals (graviportal and plantigrade) remains to be seen.”

Were there elephants and/or elephants related to elephants in South America within the last 1,000 years? The artifacts say yes but science says no. Will science carry by labeling trunked animal depictions as coati mundi with extended ears and noses or as macaws as some label the Mayan “elephant”.

Perhaps they can maintain their illusions and their evolutionary allusions if they have enough Darwinsitic faith.

See Also:Crouching Dragon, Hdden Dinosaurs: How Evolutionary Science Hides Historical Man and Dinosaur Interaction Part I

Crouching Dragon, Hdden Dinosaurs: How Evolutionary Science Hides Historical Man and Dinosaur Interaction Part II

Dinosaur and Human Interaction in Our Times (the New York Times, LA Times, Chicago-Sun Times etc. Historical Newspapers)

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jun 03 2011

Photo: Dr. Requena reports finding artifacts of an unknown, advanced civilization in Venezuela who had sculpted extinct creatures incuding several versions of the diplodocus dinosaur. Modern Mechanix, 1934

by Chris Parker, Copyright 2011
Quoted Headlines and news content in this article are in a blue font

“Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: He calleth them all by names by the greatness of His might, for that He is strong in power; not one faileth” (Isaiah 40:26).

Charles Darwin’s book; “The Origin of the Species; was written back in 1859. The word “dinosaur” had been coined a few years earlier, in 1841 by Sir Richard Owen.

I began a review of the dinosaur and man controversy in the press after that time thinking that perhaps the world of science and news reporting would have still been rather naive and innocent for a time and still willing to report things as they were discovered-without the filter and hold that Darwinism currently holds over both.

Actually, the Darwin free “honeymoon period” proved to be remarkably short, however, scientists did make reports during this period that would ruin the reputation of anyone making such “scientific” claims today.

Some say that you can’t prove a negative; what is true is that when you make a negative proposition, i.e. “blue fairies don’t exist”, the breadth of that statement is universal, while the positive (opposing) side of that argument, i.e. “blue fairies do exist” only has to be shown to be true in one place in the universe to be correct and to simultaneously prove the “negative proposition” incorrect.

Photo: Mesopotamian Cylinder Seal showing sauropods from 300 B.C. The Lovre.

Another example of this type is the proposition that man and dinosaur never interacted. In fact, according to science, they missed each other by 65 million years. This negative proposition must be universal to be true; that is, man and dinosaur never interacted at any time or in any place in this universe.

For the opposing proposition to be true; that man and dinosaur did coexist- it need only be proved that they in fact, did interact at least in one instance at one time and at one place anywhere in the universe.

But we have proof of much more than a single instance in the newspapers and magazines that existed prior to the complete establishment of the Darwin filter.

Advanced Civilization in Venezuela Lived with Dinosaurs
Special Correspondence to the New York Times, Caracas, June 5, 1932 PUBLISHED JUNE, 12 1932
DATES EARLY MAN BACK 8,000 YEARS
Dr. Requena Holds Discoveries Indicate Venezuela Was Civilization’s Cradle
Found Fossilized Skulls—Lake Valencia Relics Show That Makers Were Familiar With Prehistoric Animals

In the early 1930’s Dr. Rafael Requena was an anthropologist affiliated with Academy of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, National Library, National Congress, Central University of Venezuela.

From the above named article:

“Evidence that Venezuela was the cradle of civilization is offered in a volume on his archaeological discoveries which is being published by Dr. Rafael Requena, private secretary to President General Gomez. The publication of this book will lift the veil of secrecy which has shrouded Dr. Requena’s discoveries since they were announced briefly a year ago.

Most startling among the relics unearthed by Dr. Requena from the ancient tombs that dot the shores of Lake Valencia are images of pre-historic animals.

Among these, well sculptured in clay and kiln baked, are models of the diplodocus, a four footed monster with a goose-shaped body, surmounted by a dorsal fin, the neck of a giraffe and the jaws of a crocodile; a gliptodante, a squat four-footed beast with a hideous frog shaped head, bulging eyes and two rows of humps along its back; the prehistoric marine turtle and its equally great land-loving brother and carved from stone, the head of a hadrosaurus.

Alongside these relics were discovered the jaw bone of a dinosaur and pieces of the armor plate of the hadrosaurus…”

Photo:Closeup and comparison of one of Requena’s sauropods. From photo at top of page.


The article goes on to mention that the skulls of the people found at the location had been fossilized. Dr. Requena noted that there appeared to be a high degree of civilization that preceded all other South American civilizations. Dr. Requena, assuming that the current scientific thinking re the age of the dinosaurs was correct, and finding numerous examples of sculptured dinosaurs, reasoned that the civilization and the dinosaurs must have been from 250 million years prior.

In his book he endeavored to link the ancient civilization to Atlantis.

The April, 1934 issue of Modern Mechanix, ran an article about Dr. Requena and his archaelogical discoveries in an article entitled; “Scientists Find Traces of Two Lost Continents”. The pictures that accompany this portion of our article on dinosaurs and man in historical press accounts comes from the Modern Mechanix article.

From that article:


“DOWN through the ages, man has hung to the words of Plato. For Plato told of a great continent, Atlantis by name, which slipped under the waters of the sea, carrying with it an entire civilization.
Recent discoveries point to the fact that approximately 250,000,000 years ago, South America, Africa, India, Australia and a great portion of the Antarctic region were a single continent.

Similar discoveries reveal the existence, until about the same period, of a North Atlantis, a sort of super-continent, which ran from the present western shores of North America to the British Isles, and possibly connected, by a few small peninsulas, with Europe.

Mysterious prehistoric rock writing, recently found in Venezuela by Dr. Rafael Requena, is believed to be the work of people who lived on the lost South Atlantis. In addition to the writings, Dr. Requena has found many relics of a by-gone culture.

They include small statues of humans, with males and females easily distinguished and replicas of animals, many of which resemble the strange dinosaurs which have been dug up in other portions of the world.”

Well, that’s it, right?

The one instance in the world of scientifically verified interaction between man and dinosaur that disproves the proposition that man and dinosaur never lived together? After all, there wasn’t just a single piece that perhaps could have been misinterpreted; there were several sculptures of “diplodocuses” in various poses and sculptures of other dinosaurs and extinct creatures; not discovered by some nameless amateur but by a scientist?

Unfortunately, not as far as “science” is concerned.


On the same continent, over 17,000 and counting “Ica Stones” discovered in 1966 near Ica, Peru; many displaying drawings of dinosaurs and technology such as telescopes etc. and 32,000 Acambaro figurines, many in the shapes of dinosaurs and other extinct or fantastic creatures discovered in 1944 in Acambaro, Mexico have also been ignored by the scientific community.

Dinosaurs and Man in the Gobi Desert

“Roy Chapman Andrews (January 26, 1884 – March 11, 1960) was an American explorer, adventurer and naturalist who became the director of the American Museum of Natural History. He is primarily known for leading a series of expeditions through the fragmented China of the early 20th century into the Gobi Desert and Mongolia. The expeditions made important discoveries and brought the first-known fossil dinosaur eggs to the museum.” Wikipedia


This next series of articles deals with the discoveries of Roy Chapman Andrews in the Gobi desert. Andrews was a well known adventurer scientist of his day whose adventures often made the front pages of the New York Times and newspapers and magazines across the country and the world. It is important to realize that Andrews was not outside of the scientific mainstream but was a part of it. He was always associated with the American Museum of Natural History.

Explorer Finds Remarkable Tools of Stone-Age People
Roy Chapman Andrews, Back from China Describes Prehistoric Life
Miami Herald, August 25, 1925

“Stone implements and weapons of a race of men who lived thousands of years ago among sand dunes on the shore of a lake since swallowed up by the Gobi desert have been found far in the interior of Mongolia by the third Asiatic expedition of the American Museum of Natural History……

…These primitive men bored the shells and made ornaments of the eggs laid by the dinosaur, the giant reptile that roamed the Asiatic uplands some 10,000,000 years ago….”

In case you missed it, Chapman believes that man lived with dinosaurs in ages past because they had made ornaments out of dinosaur eggs, something that could only be accomplished with unfossilized dinosaur eggs!

Andrews Expedition
Glasgow Herald, September 9, 1925

“Among the most unique of these discoveries were the various clutches of dinosaur’s eggs, which were unearthed to the number of forty this year and thirty last.…

….Fragmentary dinosaur’s eggs figure also among the human relics, for a number of pieces were found which had been cut in regular shapes, presumably to form ornaments for prehistoric belles.”

Humans Coeval with Dinosaur (Coeval: of the same or equal age, antiquity, or duration)
The Spokesman-Review – Aug 19, 1925

Photo: The Mongolians drilled and cracked dinosaur egg shells as well as ostrich egg shells to make jewelry. Ostrich eggshell jewelry is shown here.

“…These primitive men bored the shells and made ornaments of the eggs left by the dinosaur…..They used for the same purpose the egg shells of a gigantic ostrich, long ago extinct”.

Mr. Andrews went on to date the age of the Mongolian dinosaur civilization back to 25 million years ago as science came to move the age of the dinosaurs back further in time. Clearly the Mongolians were coeval with the dinosaurs whenever it was that they lived. Calling them primitive even though no human remains were found was their way of trying to preserve some kind of evolutionary order.

Additional Articles

Only 50,000 Years Old
The Meriden Daily Journal – Jun 18, 1925

“Moscow—Two human skeletons of the Neanderthal type, believed to be at least 50,000 years old recently found in a cave near Crimea.

The skeletons of dinosaurs, hyenas and bears were also found in the cave.”

Prehistoric Game Found
Monsters With Which Ante-dilluvian Man Contended
The Turners Falls Reporter – Dec 16, 1908

“The remains of the Dryopitheous or fossil man discovered on the Bengawan River, in Java mixed as they were with fossil bones of reptiles of the Cainozoic (SIC) age, and lying in the cretaceous strata, clearly prove that man was contemporary with the later of the giant Saurians.


Moreover, the discovery of the Nampa image, a piece of handiwork found in the cretaceous strata in Ada county, Idaho would imply that he had attained some slight degree of art. Assuming then that man was living in the Cainozoic (SIC) age, the question is, how did he survive his acquaintanceship with the gigantic Saurians….”

Confirms Story of Prehistoric Finds in Kenya Colony—U.S. Anthropologist Says Bones Prove Theory of Man’s First Habitat
In Stone Age Deposit
The Montreal Gazette – Sep 24, 1927

“….the Cutler dinosaur expedition to Tanganyika, who in six weeks found seven skulls at Nakeru in a Stone Age deposit, and also unearthed a complete skeleton of a six foot man buried twelve feet deep with more than 100 stone tools. Dr. Collie gave a pledge to the discoverer not to discuss the details of the Kenya find until after Dr. Leaky (yes that Dr. Leaky) has published them this fall.

He stressed the importance of the discovery because of the apparently inexhaustible supply of these remains, and the fact that traces of dinosaurs were found. Mr. Leaky was acting for the Royal Society and the Cambridge School of Anthropology, where he is a lecturer.”

The Sunday Tribune – Mar 15, 1925

Petrified Footprints of Man Assured Museum
Evidence of Human Life on American Continent Millions of Years Ago Offers Basis for Speculation
The Deseret News – Jul 24, 1934


“Here are the footprints of the Huntington Man claimed by scientists to have roamed the wilds of Utah nearly 200 million years ago. You will note that the foot widens out at the toes, indicating that the owner of these footprints must have had to walk on soft or miry ground. The prints are almost a foot long, and more than five inches across the toes. The deep mark at the side of the footprints was probably made by the head of a flint spear, resting on marshy ground.

….If these footprints were made when the sand of this period were soft then man must have been there to make them! So if you can, envision wild and woolly men riding tamed herbiverous dinosaurs racing up and down the country……”

In this gentler, less dogmatic Darwinist time, science appeared to be willing to admit that man and dinosaur interacted. The time difficulty enters in because they still accepted the Darwinist geological time scale. When was sandstone formed they believed; 200 million years ago. Therefore they reasoned, man must have been alive 200 million years ago-along with the dinosaurs.

The truth is that the rock formed and the man left his prints and dinosaurs all lived within the last few thousand years.

Unearthed Image Presents a Puzzle
The Calgary Daily Herald – Aug 6, 1924

“A rock image lately unearthed near grand Lake, high in the Colorado Rockies, presents a puzzle. It is a blue granite stone weighing 66 pounds. But what makes it remarkable is that it is covered with carvings indicating a very early period of human life.


The mammoth animals outlined are contemporaneous with the Cro-Magnon age. Among those pictured are prehistoric dinosaurs and mastodons. The main carving represents an early man with hands that have but three fingers. The flat nose pictured is generally associated with a race preceding the Aztecs according to J.A. Jeancon, curator of the Colorado Historical and Natural History Society.” Article

Oldest Footprints in the World
The Portsmouth Sunday Times – Feb 14, 1931

“A number of clearly defined footprints in solid rock have just been discovered in France which are believed to date back from two to three million years and perhaps record the mysterious first man. The face of the rock in which the prints are embodied is criss-crossed with the steps of dinosaurs and similar prehistoric animals and indicates that a terrific struggle once occurred there.

The imprints were, of course made when the rock was soft and then slowly hardened and were preserved for all time. The amazing discovery was made at Bagnoles-de-l’Onrne in Normandy by Dr. Marcel Morin, a well known French scientist.

…..Archeologists have been much impressed by this discovery. As a result of their investigations it is suggested that man first appeared in the earlier periods of the Tertiary Age of Mammals, which ranges loosely between two and sixty million years ago.”

How Science Responds to Its Own Discoveries

Nature is Interesting
Footprints in the Rock
Toledo Blade – Nov 1, 1950

By William Holt, a retired member of the faculty of Bowling Green State University and was recognized as one of the leading geologists in the nation.

“Occasionally peculiar shaped depressions in the surface of the bedrock have caused some persons with abnormal imagination, and a lack of geological training, to “see things” in the rock. Human footprints, hand impressions, and even tracks of dinosaurs or other prehistoric animals are recognized (?).

A most interesting case of a foot-print in a slab of surface rock was recently called to my attention. The footprint was in sandstone, and was so real (?) that to some at least there was no doubt that it was actually made by man. The main question seemed to be how many millions of years old it was.

Although I did not see the original, a clear photograph of it was quite sufficient in this case; and I attempted to make the answer clear to the questioners by the following statements:

First, that no human or animal could possibly make a deep imprint in solid, hard rock.

Second, that this particular Ohio bedrock was formed many millions of years before even primitive man existed. Hence no human foot ever could have stepped on the loose sediments of which this rock later was formed.”………William Holt

William is a materialist “scientist” and thus has trained himself not to believe his own lying eyes. In later years he got himself into trouble by reasoning that the IRS didn’t exist and therefore he didn’t have to pay taxes.

In Conclusion:

August 8, 1955 The Le Mars-Globe

“A skeleton found in a gravel pit here—a fairly complete skeleton, has been declared by Dr. Reynold Ruppe, state University of Iowa archaeologist, to be the remains of an ice-age man, who lived near the south edge of the glaciers which once covered Plymouth
County.

The Monona County ice-age man, who lived at least 10,000 years ago, ..was not like a modern Indian. He’s something older—and something new.

Bones of a dinosaur were found in the same deposit—about 10 feet deeper.

At first this led to speculation that the dinosaur was the aborigine’s pet, but that didn’t hang together. Dinosaurs disappeared from the earth a million years before the first, man showed up.

So the dinosaur must have left his bones a long, long time before the man died, was drowned or trapped in quicksand at the spot near, Turin where his skeleton was recovered.”

The reader sitting on the edge of his seat when he initially began to read this was quickly calmed by the explanation that this could not be what it might have seemed to be– he was reminded that there was no evidence that dinosaurs and man ever lived together! Science!

Though this scene in various forms, in various venues and with a variety of potential proofs has no doubt been played out thousands of times in thousands of locales, the Atheist continues to ask “where is the evidence” or “why hasn’t evidence of this interaction ever been found” and many Christians wonder also while nevertheless holding on to their beliefs. The relevant information is being suppressed-sometimes “automatically” because it doesn’t fit the paradigm.

See Also
Man and Dinosaur Co-Existence Proof Accepted by Science–Giant Footprints in Stone–Giant Humans in Stone–All Verified by Orthodox Scientist After 30 Years of Ridicule

Video: Dinosaurs and Man; The Lands That Darwin Forgot..Episodes 1-8

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, Religious, s8int.com, Science, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Oct 28 2010

embedded by Embedded Video

YouTube Direkt

Darwin and time forgot the co-existence of man and dinosaurs but it is reflected in the art of ancient peoples. The variety and repetitive discoveries of known dinosaur and pterosaur species offer proof that Darwinism is a lie; all species of animals on this planet have lived concurrently with man.

The proof of this assertion is explored in eight episodes. The Series; The Lands That time Forgot”.
(Note this is not a real series….Its a s8int.com conceit)

And God created the great dragons…

And man memorialized these creatures; great and small; in exquisite detail. That is why these examinations will never be popular. everything that we’ve been told is true by materialistic sources–is untrue–and that is impossible in that world view.

Link to Video; Dinosaurs and Man; The Lands That Darwin Forgot..Episodes 1-8

Note: No actual, horses, dogs or dinosaurs were hurt or harmed in the making of this movie….

You Wanted My Rationale So We’re Here at a Museum
My Reasons Are Many But I wanted You To See One
This Placard Proclaims it a 2000 Year Old “Mythical” Creature
But It’s A Dinosaur-Dead 65M Years-If Darwin’s Your Teacher
The Real Answers Are in Genesis But the Wise Have Been Fooled
That is One Reason, My Son, That You Are Being Home Schooled

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, Religious, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Oct 15 2010

Photo:Viewing a “Sumerian stone head of a mythical creature, Mesopotamia, Circa 2000 BC” on Sale at Auction in November 2009. Source: Mossgreen.

Sumerian Unicorn?

This piece was exhibited in an Auction catalogue for Fiine Arts auction that took place last year. (Fine Australian & International Art & Antiques ) It appears to have been purchased at the minimum bid of $148.38 by an unknown bidder. The auction house identified the piece as that of a “mythical creature” from Mesopotamia, circa 2,000 B.C. (Size 5cm)

Far from being “mythical”, this piece of ancient art very clearing and in exacting detail pictures a hadrosaurine dinosaur, probably a saurolophus. The parasaurolophus hadrosaurine dinosaur is another possible identification because they were virtually identical to saurolophus in size and head structure. The parasaurolophus had the longer horn. Para means similar or like, so the name parasaurolophus was given to this creature because it was so similar to saurolophus.

Did dinosaurs become extinct 65 million years ago? Why then do accurate representations of them appear in the art of ancient peoples? This piece proves that man and dinosaur co-existed. Given the headgear of these dinosaurs, if they lived in the time of man they are excellent candidates for the “Unicorn” position. After all, unicorn merely means “one horn”.

Saurolophus

“Saurolophus is a genus of large hadrosaurine duckbill that lived about 69.5-68.5 million years ago, in the Late Cretaceous of North America (Canada) and Asia (Mongolia); it is one of the few genera of dinosaurs known from multiple continents. It is distinguished by a spike-like crest which projects up and back from the skull. Saurolophus was a herbivorous dinosaur which could move about either bipedally or quadrupedally.

The type species, S. osborni, was described by Barnum Brown in 1912. The other valid species, S. angustirostris, lived in Asia, and was described by Anatoly Konstantinovich Rozhdestvensky. A third species is considered dubious.

Saurolophus is known from material including nearly complete skeletons, giving researchers a clear picture of its bony anatomy. S. osborni, the rarer Albertan species, was around 9.8 meters long (32 feet), with its skull a meter long (3.3 feet).It weight is estimated at 1.9 tonnes (2.1 tons).[ S. angustirostris, the Mongolian species, was larger; the type skeleton is roughly 12 meters long (39.4 ft), and larger remains are reported Aside from size, the two species are virtually identical, with differentiation hindered by lack of study.


The most distinctive feature of Saurolophus is its cranial crest, which is present in young individuals but is smaller. It is long and spike-like and projects upward and backward at about a 45 degree angle, starting from over the eyes.

This crest is often described as solid, but appears to be solid only at the point, with internal chambers that may have had a respiratory and/or heat-regulation function.

Discovery and History

Barnum Brown recovered the first described remains of Saurolophus in 1911, including a nearly complete skeleton (AMNH 5220). Now on display in the American Museum of Natural History, this skeleton was the first nearly complete dinosaur skeleton from Canada. It was found in rocks of early Maastrichtian age, in the Upper Cretaceous Horseshoe Canyon Formation (then known as the Edmonton Formation) near Tolman Ferry on the Red Deer River in Alberta.

Brown wasted little time in describing his material, giving it its own subfamily. Saurolophus was an important early reference for other hadrosaurs, as seen in the names of Prosaurolophus (“before Saurolophus”) and Parasaurolophus (“near Saurolophus”). However, little additional material has been recovered and described.

Instead, more abundant remains from Asia have provided more data.”…Wikipedia

Apocrypha: Bel and the Dragon Chapter 1
Mesopotamia

1 And king Astyages was gathered to his fathers, and Cyrus of Persia received his kingdom. 2 And Daniel conversed with the king, and was honoured above all his friends.

3 Now the Babylons had an idol, called Bel, and there were spent upon him every day twelve great measures of fine flour, and forty sheep, and six vessels of wine. 4 And the king worshipped it and went daily to adore it: but Daniel worshipped his own God. And the king said unto him, Why dost not thou worship Bel?

5 Who answered and said, Because I may not worship idols made with hands, but the living God, who hath created the heaven and the earth, and hath sovereignty over all flesh.

6 Then said the king unto him, Thinkest thou not that Bel is a living God? seest thou not how much he eateth and drinketh every day? 7 Then Daniel smiled, and said, O king, be not deceived: for this is but clay within, and brass without, and did never eat or drink any thing.

Graphic:Mesopotamian cylinder seal from 3,300 B.C. The Lovre.
8 So the king was wroth, and called for his priests, and said unto them, If ye tell me not who this is that devoureth these expences, ye shall die. 9 But if ye can certify me that Bel devoureth them, then Daniel shall die: for he hath spoken blasphemy against Bel. And Daniel said unto the king, Let it be according to thy word.

10 Now the priests of Bel were threescore and ten, beside their wives and children. And the king went with Daniel into the temple of Bel. 11 So Bel’s priests said, Lo, we go out: but thou, O king, set on the meat, and make ready the wine, and shut the door fast and seal it with thine own signet; 12 And to morrow when thou comest in, if thou findest not that hath eaten up all, we will suffer death, or else Daniel, that speaketh falsely against us.

13 And they little regarded it: for under the table they had made a privy entrance, whereby they entered in continually, and consumed those things. 14 So when they were gone forth, the king set meats before Bel. Now Daniel had commanded his servants to bring ashes, and those they strewed throughout all the temple in the presence of the king alone: then went they out, and shut the door, and sealed it with the king’s signet, and so departed.

15 Now in the night came the priests with their wives and children, as they were wont to do, and did eat and drinck up all. 16 In the morning betime the king arose, and Daniel with him. 17 And the king said, Daniel, are the seals whole? And he said, Yea, O king, they be whole.

18 And as soon as he had opened the door, the king looked upon the table, and cried with a loud voice, Great art thou, O Bel, and with thee is no deceit at all.

19 Then laughed Daniel, and held the king that he should not go in, and said, Behold now the pavement, and mark well whose footsteps are these. 20 And the king said, I see the footsteps of men, women, and children. And then the king was angry, 21 And took the priests with their wives and children, who shewed him the privy doors, where they came in, and consumed such things as were upon the table.

22 Therefore the king slew them, and delivered Bel into Daniel’s power, who destroyed him and his temple.
23 And in that same place there was a great dragon, which they of Babylon worshipped.

24 And the king said unto Daniel, Wilt thou also say that this is of brass? Lo, he liveth, he eateth and drinketh; thou canst not say that he is no living god: therefore worship him.

25 Then said Daniel unto the king, I will worship the Lord my God: for he is the living God. 26 But give me leave, O king, and I shall slay this dragon without sword or staff. The king said, I give thee leave.
27 Then Daniel took pitch, and fat, and hair, and did seethe them together, and made lumps thereof: this he put in the dragon’s mouth, and so the dragon burst in sunder : and Daniel said, Lo, these are the gods ye worship.

See Also Did Ancient Americans Ride the Parasaurolophus Dinosaur?-Or Did They Just Exaggerate the Size of Their Sheep?

Note To Counterfeiter’s of “Ancient Indian Relics”..Don’t Shape Them Like Sauropod Dinosaurs!

Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, Uncategorized, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jul 17 2010

Photo:Counterfeit Relics? Click for Higher Resolution

Note to counterfeiters indeed!

If one is going to create a market for ancient “Indian” relics (back in the mid-late 1800′s and early 1900′s) by cleverly making the artifacts in question, one must be smart enough Not to make them in the shape of a creature that those “Indians” could never have either seen or imagined (according to Darwinist’s).

That would be like counterfeiting $1 million dollar bills or Cleveland Indian World Series tickets today.

Clearly counterfeit bears, fish, horses or buffalo would have been better received, particularly by the scientifically literate. When one realizes that a counterfeiter of those times would have to take the needed time to shape and polish stones into various shapes, then artificially ‘age’ them and then after all that work to sell them for .50., 75 or $1.50 each it hardly makes sense.

Photo:Counterfeit Relics? Click for Higher Resolution

That kind of criminal enterprise would seem to be its own punishment. In fact, if one was convicted of such a crime in those days, a sentence of forced labor making animal shapes from stones would no doubt be both ironic and appropriate.

But then, to be unsmart enough to carve them into the shape of a dinosaur?….The third piece appears to be a side view of a sauropod with a neck frill of some kind…like maybe Miragaia, but dude seriously!

The American Archaeologist Magazine of 1898; for Scientist and Student-A Monthly Journal Devoted to Archaeology and Ethnology was having none of it and editorialized strongly against the counterfeiters.

The Magazine noted:

“We have commenced in this number of The Archaeologist to give our opinion of relic counterfeiters in language that cannot be misconstrued; and we will continue the crusade against the scoundrels until their swindling is suppressed. Let us hear from our readers now”._-Editor

Photo:Counterfeit Relics?
Click for Higher Resolution

We must assume that their readers were also against counterfeiting “Indian relics”.

The editorial pulled no punches, naming the Robinette family of Hancock County Tennessee as one of the chief malefactors although they carefully noted that they also did a brisk trade in genuine “Indian” artifacts.
Clearly, the relics that appeared with the editorial arguably in the shape of prehistoric animals were in the class “fakes” and the very items which could have confused the public.

One of the Robinette family’s chief competitors chimed in and amazingly enough agreed wholeheartedly with the American Anthropologist in the matter. They also perhaps unwittingly identified the primary issue with respect to the ‘fake” relics in question:

A very honorable and reliable dealer in curios, in Ohio, writes us, under recent date, as follows:” I have in my possession one of J.T. Overstreet pipes which I can send you for examination if you wish. It is the best counterfeit pipe I have yet seen, and is well calculated to deceive anyone.

Don’t fail to show up these pipe fraud fiends, for I consider some of their pipes far more dangerous to our business and Your Science than the flint crooks.”.

From this time and distance we cannot comment as to the “fakeness” if any of the artifacts in question. No doubt, counterfeiting these artifacts was a serious problem. But where did these “counterfeiting fiends” get the idea to create fake artifacts in the shape of a sauropod?

Dinosaurs Shed a Few Tons in Science Makeover

Crypto, s8int.com, Science, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jun 23 2009

Graphic: Ancient Mesopotamian Sauropod Depiction. (Not a part of the original article)

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Click Here to Read about Mesopotamian Dino

Here science explains why in some cases they’ve reduced that calculated weight of certain dinosaurs approximately 50%. The depictions of these creatures in this piece of ancient art appears to provide some support for the idea of more muscular creatures than is often depicted(or not, judge for yourself). A problem that science seems to be trying to solves is; how under the current gravity could the larger dinosaurs run or even raise their necks?

Creationists and catastrophists might postulate a lower gravity in the past but this is not an acceptable answer for science who have built their house on uniformism…..s8int.com

Times Online
Jonathan Leake, Science Editor

WAS IT really the age of the thinosaurs? Scientists have discovered that dinosaurs may have been much lighter and sleeker than previously thought because of potential flaws in the equations used to calculate their weight.

The findings could force researchers to rethink many of their beliefs, particularly about giant plant eaters such as apatosaurus which had been thought to weigh up to 37 tons. The creature’s real weight was closer to 18 tons, according to new calculations.

Tyrannosaurus rex, the best-known predatory species, may have been far more lithe than imagined and able to move and turn at high speed.

“Palaeontologists have for 25 years used a statistical model to estimate the body weight of giant dinosaurs and other extraordinarily large extinct animals,” said Gary Packard, from Colorado State University, whose research will appear in the Zoological Society of London’s Journal of Zoology this week.

“We have found that the statistical model is seriously flawed and the giant dinosaurs probably were only about half as heavy as is generally believed.”

The research does not suggest that dinosaurs were shorter in length or height. These dimensions are clear from the size of their bones. Instead, Packard’s work challenges the depiction of many giant herbivores. Until now they have been shown as well-rounded, powerful animals, when they are more likely to have been skinny and muscular.

Such findings would affect more than just appearance. It would suggest that these animals were leaner and faster, needed less food and had significant differences in lifestyle from what was previously thought.

Estimating the weight of dinosaurs has always been a problem for scientists, who have adopted two main approaches.

One involves measuring the remains of contemporary animal species and using them to build up a picture of how the dimensions of certain bones relate to the mass of a living body. The data can then be extrapolated for dinosaurs.

The other approach involves building models, either physically or on a computer, and using them to work out the volume that would be occupied by the body of a much larger creature of the same shape.

However, dinosaurs, especially giant herbivores such as the apatosaurus and diplodocus, have such different body plans from modern animals that errors creep in.

One problem is that such animals had light, strong spines but thick, powerful legs. Another problem is that they were simply much bigger than anything alive today. This means errors generated by using data from modern species become magnified when applied to large extinct ones.

John Hutchinson, a researcher in evolutionary biomechanics at the Royal Veterinary College in London, has tried to work out how much the tyrannosaurus might have weighed as part of his research into dinosaur locomotion.

“The best we can do is put the weight at six to eight tons for a typical adult. There is a big question about how much skin they had and how much flesh. ” Hutchinson said.

“Lost World” of Dinosaurs Survived Mass Extinction?

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, The Flood of Noah, Uncategorized | Posted by Chris Parker
May 15 2009

Is science catching up? Our section on Dinosaurs in Ancient Art, History and Literature confirms that dinosaurs lived through the “mass extinction” (flood) and much longer.

Photo: (click Photo for larger size) Left to right: 1)Ancient warriors from Sumatra ride the back of a parasaurolophus. Art of the Ancient Peoples—Toba Batak, Sumatra By Tibor Bodrogi 1972 Translated from the Hungarian. 2) Head (orange-brown) of a “flat-headed dinosaur”, (Hadrosaurine) such as shantungosaurus or iguanadon. Han Dynasty bronze cooking vessel. The Han Dynasty spanned the period of between approximately 200 B.C. to 220 A.D..

3)Sauropod from the Ancient Art of Thailand. 4) Cerotopsian head from that other dinosaur temple. Muktinath Temple was consecrated in 1815 and is famous for its 108 “dragon headed fountain”. This is one of those dragon heads. 5) Man rides an African (Dogon) Ornithopod (“duckbilled”) Dinosaur. Piece is authenticated to the 1800’s. 6)Tyrannosaurus or other theropod. From Popol Voh Museum . Effigy figure Precolumbian.………s8int.com

Brian Handwerk
for National Geographic News
(Thanks, Constavlos)
May 1, 2009

An isolated group of dinosaurs somehow survived the catastrophic event that wiped out most of their kind some 65.5 million years ago, a new study suggests.

Dinosaurs of this “lost world,” in a remote region of the U.S. West, may have outlived their doomed relatives by as much as half a million years, according to James Fassett, an emeritus scientist with the U.S. Geological Survey in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Fassett, who has argued for years that some dinosaurs survived the mass extinction, based his latest work on fossils from the San Juan Basin in what is now Colorado and New Mexico.

There, the bones of hadrosaurs, tyrannosaurs, anklyosaurs, and several other species were found together in a sandstone formation that dates to the Paleocene epoch—the time period after the so-called Cretaceous-Tertiary (K-T) extinction event, which is thought to have killed off the dinosaurs.

As with his past research, Fassett’s latest find is likely to continue sparking controversy among paleontologists.

“Every few years someone claims to have [found] Paleocene ‘surviving’ dinosaurs,” said Hans-Dieter Sues, associate director for research and collections at the Smithsonian Institution’s National Museum of Natural History.

But so far, such fossils have eventually turned out to be older remains.

“Unequivocal Evidence”

In his new study, appearing in the April 2009 issue of the journal Palaeontologia Electronica, Fassett argues that a single hadrosaur fossil helps prove that the San Juan dinos really are from the Paleocene.

After previous “survivor” finds, it was determined that the dinosaurs in question, initially entombed in sand or mud, had their bones exposed again later by natural forces such as river erosion.

The bones were then redeposited in younger rock layers, making them appear to belong to an earlier era.

But paleontologists found a concentration of 34 bones from a single hadrosaur in the San Juan Basin sandstone.

“That’s unequivocal evidence I think,” Fassett said. River-washed bones would be widely scattered and also show signs of wear and tear—unlike the current fossils, some of which he describes as “pristine.”

Click Here for the Balance of the Article on Nat Geo