Dinosaurs in Literature, Art & History
There Were Giants In The Earth in Those Days
Those Sophisticated "Cave Men"
Salvation. What Must You Do To Be Saved?
by Anthony C. James, 2006
William: “Ahhh.
Look at what the wind blew in. How ya doin”?
Robert: “Must have been an ill wind, huh”?
William: “Nah, not at all. Good to see
you! Pull up a chair. Everyone else has deserted me out here. How’s the wife?
Robert: Well, we're not married yet! We're still just at the "stalking" stage. But I have to admit that it's going pretty well. Two months and still no restraining order!
William: Wow! Then it really is serious!
Robert: Someday I’m going to marry that girl and -I’ve
got my eye on a coupla kids I think she’s
really going to like, too! Hey! What’re we having? Smoked turkey? I guess,
you being a Christian and all will have to pass on it? I mean cannibalism is a
sin, right”?
William: “That’s very droll, Rob. I
suppose you’ll be very happy to hear for the exact same reasons that there will
be two turkeys and no ham?, You know that when it gets
hot out people around you always think they smell bacon”.
Robert: “Touche”!
William: “Not that I’m keeping track,
but that’s actually “three
che”.
Robert: “Touche”!
William: “If you insist. Did you know
Dad is coming by? That’s why I was surprised to see you here.”
Robert: “Yeah, he’s already here. That’s one of the reasons I’m out
here in the cold with you. I wasn’t gearing up to have to see him until over at
the house tomorrow”.
William: “You still haven’t forgiven
him for turning his back on your religion, huh”?
Robert: “Atheism isn’t a religion and it’s not even about that”.
William: “Stop trying to convert me, then. You know Dad's coming to
church with me these days”?
Robert: “Yeah. Uncle Mike must be turning over in his grave. I'm trying to smarten you up-not convert you, idiot.”
William: I
don’t believe Uncle Mike is dead. As a matter of fact, he was upstairs stuffing
his face when I came out here”. Besides, do Atheists believe in consciousness
after death?
Robert: “Yeah, well he’s not looking too good and he’s still
drinking like a fish. You know he breaks out in hives if he just drives by a
church- or, of course, if his blood alcohol drops below .08. Actually, I think
he blames his falling out of recovery on your becoming a Christian.”
William: “I think he drinks because he
needs to in order to continue to be an “intellectually fulfilled Atheist”. You
do remember that time as kids when we saw him praying over Mom when she was
sick in the hospital”?
Robert: “That was no hospital, that was
Kaiser. And he swears that he was- throwing up a rum and diet coke. If he knew
you were still doubting his story he’d be turning over
in his grave right now. Plus, if he was praying, it didn't do much good, did it"?
Robert: After a few minutes of companionable silence: “So, did you get my e-mail? The one about Oklo”?
William: “Oh, man! I should have known
why you made a beeline out here! I thought maybe you were out here just to hang
out. Please tell me that you don’t want to get involved in yet another
evolution/creation debate”?
Robert: “No, not so much a debate. A discussion”.
William” Let’s save some time, why
don’t you just stalk off”?
Robert:”I’ve got the goods, this
time! Well, I always had the goods but this information I think you’ll find is
very compelling evidence for an “old universe” and an “old earth””. He pulled
some folded pages from his back pocket.
William: “For crying out loud! You
brought the e-mail with you to a family celebration just so we could argue
about it? Look I’m not sure that this is a good time for this, I’m frying a
turkey, here”.
Robert: “Yeah well I’m trying to fry a turkey, too, bro. Would you be so kind as to pass me the peanut oil and close
your eyes”?
He began to read: “In the early 1970s, French scientists
noticed something odd about samples of uranium recovered from the Oklo mine in
Scientists from other countries were skeptical when first hearing of these
natural nuclear reactors. Some argued that the missing amounts of U-235 had
been displaced over time, not split in nuclear fission reactions.
"How," they asked, "could fission reactions happen in nature,
when such a high degree of engineering, physics, and acute, detailed attention
went into building a nuclear reactor?"
Perrin and the other French scientists concluded that the only other uranium
samples with similar levels of the isotopes found at Oklo
could be found in the used nuclear fuel produced by modern reactors. They found
that the percentages of many isotopes at Oklo
strongly resembled those in the spent fuel generated by nuclear power plants,
and, therefore, reasoned that a similar natural process had occurred.”
…. The uranium in the
Earth contains dominantly two uranium isotopes, U-238 and U-235, but also a
very small percentage of U-234, and perhaps small, undetectable amounts of
others. All of these isotopes undergo radioactive decay, but they do so at
different rates. In particular, U-235 decays about six-and-a-third times faster
than U-238. Thus, over time the proportion of U-235 to U-238 decreases. But
this change is slow because of the small rates of decay.
Generally, uranium isotope ratios are the same in all uranium ores contained in
nature, whether found in meteorites or in moon rocks. Therefore, scientists
believe that the original proportions of these isotopes were the same
throughout the solar system. At present, U-238 comprises about 99.3 percent of
the total, and U-235 comprises about 0.7 percent.5 5 Any change in
this ratio indicates some process other than simple radioactive decay.
Calculating back to 1.7 billion years ago—the age of the deposits in
William tried to speak. Robert held up his hand.
Robert: “Hold
on! That was from. A G.Cowan, in
Scientific American. Just a few
more quotes and then let me place them in a context, and I’ll let you have the
floor”. He continued: “
“Ultimately, the mystery was
unraveled, when it was discovered that in the pockets of depleted uranium ore a
characteristic spectrum of byproducts of nuclear fission were also present and
in the distinctive ratio that might be anticipated if a natural fission reactor
had produced them.
The U-235 from Oklo had been depleted partly because it had become the
fuel of the reactor. It had also dwindled through time, simply by its own
radioactive decay.
By calculating how long ago the
U-235 had been sufficiently concentrated to fuel a chain reaction, the
scientists were able to date the time it was operating to 2 billion years ago,
about the age of rocks in which the uranium ore was found”.
“Next”, he said is this quote
from Don Lindsay: “Another evidence is the natural
nuclear reactor at Oklo, in
Robert continued: “The point of all this is the following. To me, it’s
not bad enough that you’re a creationist, but you are a young earth
creationist! If this information does not make a dent with you in terms of
creationism, at the very least it should either convince you or create some
severe doubts in your mind about a young earth! I say this because the Oklo natural reactors are real, the nuclear reactions did
occur, and could only have done so approximately 2 billion years ago when the
uranium would have been sufficiently enriched. “
“Finally”, he concluded, “the
mutagenic radiation from such natural reactors some 2 billion years ago could
have been a major driving force in evolution!
Robert waited a moment but William
hadn’t made a response. “Go on”, he said.
William: “Oh, I can speak now? Thanks,
but I’m not even sure where to start”.
Robert: “Yeah, this is a tough one for creationists. I know of one
guy who was formerly a young earth creationist who has become a “theistic”
evolutionist” and “old earther”, just because he
couldn’t come up with a “young earth” explanation for Oklo.
Not only that, I sent you a newsgroup item where it showed that they pretty
well savaged Dembski’s intelligent design filter
because Oklo meets many of the criteria for
intelligent design even though obviously, it was a natural phenomenon.”
William: “Yeah, no. I’d heard about Oklo years ago. Plus I did read all the stuff in your
e-mail. It’s just that this will be our 1,000th discussion on these sort
of topics and history tells me that even after hours of discussion, neither one
of us is going to change his beliefs one bit. I don’t feel like I’ve got that
kind of time, plus it’s cold, plus I’ve got to focus on frying this turkey and
plus that other bird is going to freeze if I don’t get it in the house”.
Robert:”Okay, we’ll save the
full discussion for e-mail. Just give me some of your initial thoughts because
frankly, I don’t think there is an adequate young earth response to the Oklo phenomenon.. Wait one minute,
and I’ll run your turkey inside. Get your thoughts together in the meantime”.
William: “You’re offering to help? You? Ahh! You’ve had too many beers yourself huh? You’ve got to
go potty!”
Robert: “Like its 1999. Get your little fundamentalist thoughts
together, and I’ll be right back”!
When Robert came back he handed a tumbler to William. William: What’s
this?”
Robert: “Some hot chocolate. You’re welcome”.
William: :Thanks! Umm. Do Atheists wash their hands? Cuz, you know, though its not in the Bible, they do say; cleanliness is next to ...Godliness. Oh, and tell me this? I've always wondered; what do I say if you sneeze again?!
Robert:"You simply apologize for forgetting about my allergy to cheap cologne."
William:"And it was so thoughtful of you to have given it to me for my birthday-even if it was only three quarters full. So, okay, back to the discussion; let me start with this. This whole science thing.
This thing where we Christians try to approach the origin of ourselves and the
universe in a “scientific” way is for your benefit only. We find it limiting,
but because you claim that you can only see the universe through a particular lense, we try to accommodate you. We
try to speak the language you say you can understand, while a more perfect
language is set aside. We’re speaking baby talk here.”
Robert: “Gratuitous insult.” You’re simply saying that you don’t
need evidence.
William:”We do
need evidence, I’m just not limited to what you call evidence. Imagine if
someone says that they could only understand love if they can put it into some
kind of scientific formula, or measure it out to prove it experimentally? “Science “can tell us little about the appreciation
of a sunset, about the soul of man or so many other things. For that matter, science can tell us very
little about the mind itself.
The thing is, science can only
begin after the universe and the creation already exist. Science can tell us
nothing about what happens before that. In fact, let me say this; science begins
after creation. The first law of physics, conservation of matter and energy
says matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. This tells you
that science does not know how matter came into existence. It should also tell
you that if matter cannot be created under the laws of this universe, that
something outside the 1st law created matter and energy. The most
important law of science itself points to a “special creation” outside of science .”
Robert:”You are going to talk
about Oklo, right?
William: “Special Creation” however, is
something that happens “pre-science”. The fact of the matter is, if you were inclined to stick
exclusively to science, the 1st law would turn you away-it tells you
not to look here in science because all we can tell you is that all this matter
you see..? It can’t be created! If you want to know about creation, you have to
look outside of science”.
Robert:”Oklo”?
William:”Okay. For all the years we’ve been talking about this, I’ve been consistent about what I believe, Seven "actual" days, special creation, ie God did it, He is the creator ex-nihlio (from nothing), a global worldwide flood , a young earth. Right.” Now, consistent with that, the laws of the universe are now set. But consistent with my beliefs, when Adam and Eve were created there was no death. By the way, I've been consistent but whether you realize it or not, you've been nothing but. Whatever you assert confidently about evolution, or the universe or the "big bang" is likely to be changed the next time we speak. You will then assert the new "take" as arrogantly as you did the prior "take".
I saw an article yesterday that I didn't read,but that says the big bang needs to be moved back another 2 billion more years. Me, I'm sticking with created in seven days. You know what dude, I'll tell you the same thing tommorrow.
To be more
specific about the 1st and 2nd laws of physics, my assumption is that in the beginning, the 1st law was
set, but not the second, which is entropy…systems over time will lose energy
and become less organized. I believe entropy came into existence after the
fall. That is, death was introduced into this world; the spiritual death of
man, the physical death of man and animal, and the beginnings of the physical
death of the universe. At the beginning death was not part of the plan, nor was
the winding down of the creation.
I’ll come back
to this point.
Now, Oklo, okay? Materialists have available to them only one
solution for the Oklo phenomenon; a naturalistic one.
Nothing else fits uniformism and gradualism. On the
other hand, Christians certainly can’t accept a natural explanation,
particularly if it is one that takes 1.8 billion years to occur. Neither
Christians nor evolutionists apparently considered the idea of sophisticated civilizations
prior to the flood of Noah in relation t Oklo. Well, evolutionists wouldn't but even
Christians who believe in the flood tend to think of the pre-flooders as
nomadic herdsmen with no technology.
For that
reason, the very first thing that should have occurred to both groups about Oklo did not. Occam’s Razor (when there are multiple explanations- choose the
simplest one) should have led to the conclusion-or at least the consideration that this was a “designed
system” and not a natural one!
Even though
materialists were “freaked out” by the discovery and even though as you read the scientific
world initially resisted the idea of a natural breeder reactor they never for a minute
considered the idea that “cave men” (because of their view of earlier man)
could have built a breeder reactor! Oh, and by the way, something else you will have to adjust as you confidently assert evolutionary theories; Neanderthal DNA turns out to match "human" DNA to 99.99%" OOPS!
But I digress, consider;
the Oklo reactor produced energy comparable to a modern nuclear reactor, was
moderated by water so that the reaction could be controlled, and to this day
still contains the waste products from the reactor. In short, this system was “well
designed”, whether by nature or by man!. I submit to you that to believe it was built by aliens makes more
sense to me than the idea that somehow nature built it and I don’t believe aliens
exist.
To say that you
accept the idea that it was a natural phenomenon rather than a designed reactor proves that you probably don’t
know how much technology went into building a working breeder reactor.
As for Dembski’s design filter; Dembski
himself probably never considered that the reason his filter might “select” the
Oklo reactor as a product of design is that it is in
fact a product of design! Duh!
Robert:”You can’t be serious”!?
William:“Look! I’m not saying that the reactors were designed and
built by man as a certainty. Whether or not it was or wasn’t does not impact me
as a Christian. I’m saying that this should have been
the very first thing considered or that it should have at the very least been on the
list. I can send you a link later re some creation scientists who accept
the idea that it is natural reactor but who show that it could still have happened in
the context of a young earth, but A mistake being made here is the idea
that technology will always look the same—that advanced technology had to take
the form that it did in this present age.
Let me ask you
this; if you had to direct a team and the resources to build; the great pyramid
with the technological level and tools we say were available to the supposed builders thereof, the Egyptians (and whatever you may
think, there is no firm evidence in any way that connects the pyramids of the Giza plateau to the dynastic Egyptians), —or you had to direct the team and resources
to place a man on the moon with the technology we had in the sixties , which
challenge would be more difficult?
Do not be so
quick to choose landing a man on the moon with the technology available at that
time. In order to build the pyramid, you would have had quarry and then move 2.3 million
granite or limestone blocks weighing between 2.5 and 50 tons, 600 miles to
the site of the pyramid. Keep in mind that the copper and bronze tools experts
say the Egyptians used to precisely cut the stone blocks are softer than the
limestone and granite blocks. Keep in
mind that you will need to lift and precisely place granite blocks, some again weighing
nearly 50 tons, to a height of nearly 500 feet. That's 50 stories. These stones will need to be
placed with such tolerances that a razor blade will not fit between them. Your pyramid will when finished line up with the four points
of the compass with an accuracy of .06 degrees, supposedly, without a compass.
Your team will
need to level the 13-acre limestone bedrock base to a degree of accuracy only
recently achieved with laser technology using only the known technology of the
Dynastic Egyptians. Among technological attributes to numerous to mention, your
team will have to excavate what’s known
as the ‘Descending Passage’ some 350 feet into solid bedrock using copper and
bronze tools, at a 26-degree angle-- all the while keeping the tunnel
arrow-straight for its entire length”!
Robert: (Feigning a yawn?) “Thanks! That’s fascinating! Not! Look,
can you please tell me how you moved from the Oklo
natural reactor to a man made triangle? I really want you to focus Billy if you
can. How do you react to the information I provided about Oklo?
William: “My point is,
that there is evidence of ancient high technology other than the ancient nuclear
facility at Oklo”.
Robert:”Look, I’ll bite. The
technology that built the great pyramid is in no way comparable to the
technology or effort it took to put a man on the moon. I guess that means that
I would take the pyramid. Give me enough slave labor and I’ll bring it in on
time and under budget! The moon landing on the other hand required
computers-much higher technology”!
William:"I don't think millions of unskilled slave laborers are going to help you build one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. How could you do it when experts are still arguing about how it was done in the first place? The point is, the choice is not a foregone conclusion. If you accept the
dating of the current experts on the great pyramid, then for more than 5,000
years this precisely built yet huge structure was the tallest structure built
by man. It’s been less than two hundred years since its height was surpassed.
It’s almost 50 stories high and is built to a much higher precision that any modern highrise!”!
Robert: “Moving on to Oklo:…?
William:” What makes me laugh is the
example we "creationists" use re: the tornado in the junkyard. The
idea that the odds of evolution working to produce the diversity of life on
earth would be like a tornado coming through a junkyard and completely
assembling a 727. The problem is, we
underestimate the gullibility of materialists! I mean, you’ll take those odds every time
if it means that you don’t have to get down on your knees to worship God!
If you and I could observe that junkyard and watch a
billion years worth of tornados producing not so much as a ninety degree angle,
I bet I know exactly what you’d say”…
Robert:: And that is…
William: :”Best
two billion out of three”!?
Robert:””Rimshot”!
William:” Your faith is almost
inspirational. Okay. How did they conclude that the “natural reactor” was
active nearly 2 billion years ago? I’ll tell you how. By making the assumption that the
nuclear decay rate or half-life of U235 has always remained constant. In
other words, if the present laws and constants of nature had extended
throughout the past, the Oklo uranium deposit could
have become critical close to 2 billion years ago. Additionally, the conditions
for a moderated reaction do not exist today and must be assumed to have existed
in the past. So, this si what happened re: Oklo. 1)
Freak out. 2)Sweat. 3)Come up
with a “natural” explanation which at first was met with a pronounced skepticism
but which later would become dogma,
i.e.’ darwinism, the big bang theory, dark matter,
continental drift and Cold Play”!
Robert:”Cold Play”!
William::4)Gradually
rally around the natural explanation because really, what else have you got. 5)Dogma. 6) Verify that constants are “constant” by using
constants to arrive at a date a “natural” reactor was in operation. 7)Turn around and use Oklo with
your new assumption generated numbers to prove that constants have always been
constant! 8)Try to taunt creationists with your
proof”!
Christians on
the other hand should know consistent with their belief in both the “fall” and
the flood have accepted a view that is completely
opposed to uniform assumptions. Our view has always been catastrophic. Who
knows how submersion in water for up to a year or more is going to impact
radiometric dating? Logically, both the
fall of man and the flood eliminate uniformism.
This last part
is to address the idea that there are Christians who’ve been impacted by the Oklo phenomenon in terms of their faith. You said some of
them have been cowed by it and I’m just saying that perhaps they haven’t fully
thought out what the implications are of their belief in the Biblical teachings
on the history of the planet and the creation of the universe”.
Robert:”To be honest, I feel
like you’re weaseling out of the Oklo implications,
here. The one thing you’ve said which I will need to go and research is the
idea that to arrive at an Oklo date they assumed
constants were constant. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me because ; what else could they assume”. I will however agree
that you can’t then go back and say Oklo proves that
the constants were always constant. The idea that little green men built themselves
a breeder reactor belongs on Stargate SG-1, which I know you watch, by the way.”
William:”You do know that
there has been research indicating that the speed of light and other constants
have or are changing? One of those studies even focused on Oklo,
though they didn’t suggest a magnitude change in the constants.
Would you also agree that if today the fact that matter and
energy are “conserved” indicates that there was a time before
the present physical laws in this universe were set that another law,
permitting the creation of matter must have been in effect”?
Robert:
The Big bang….
William:” The Big bang was invented by someone who believed in the
creation theory. I believe he was a minister who thought the big bang evidence
supported the idea that God created the universe. However, the big bang
couldn’t have created matter, it was how matter was
dispersed, wasn’t it”?
Robert:”I’ll get back to
you on that”.
William:”Continuing to
respond to your Oklo information. You mentioned
mutation. The idea that radiation from the nuclear reactor
sped up evolution. I suppose I can’t just say “that’s dumb” and go back
to frying this turkey? It is you know.
Mutation is bad for organisms, not good. Mutation destroys information, it does not add new information. This means
that entropy, not only is at work in the universe, it is also at work on the
genome. Ironically the very thing that evolutionists believe is responsible for
building on the genome and increasing information is doing the exact opposite.
In fact, mutation in humans is much more frequent as
previously thought. The human genome is gradually being destroyed by mutation.
A population geneticist named “Crow” (and he’s on your team) estimates that
humans are experiencing an irrevocable net loss of genetic information such
that the “fitness” is declining by 1% to 2% per generation. This means
that eventually, the human genome will lose too much information for the human
race to continue. Read Remine’s book on Haldane’s Dilemma or
Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon were physically stronger, had
better eyesight (based on paintings in dark caves with no evidence of soot) and
had larger brains. Our descendants will be much less robust than ourselves-if
the Lord hasn’t come by that time.”
Robert: ”I believe I will find your
picture in the dictionary under digress”! Let’s eat turkey tonight and finish
this discussion by e-mail. I’m going to get some more material and stay focused
on Oklo. I
think I can make some progress with you on this because it is so conclusive”!
William: “At your current rate of
“progress”, should it remain constant, you’ll accomplish nothing in 2 billion years”.
See Also
Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth (#301),
by Larry Vardiman, Ph.D.
Speed of Light May have Changed Recently
THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE OKLO PHENOMENON ON THE CONSTANCY OF RADIOMETRIC DECAY RATES,
C. L. Webster
Geoscience Research Institute
The Great Pyramid of Egypt, by Martin Gray
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