Posts Tagged ‘s8int.com’

Despite Coelacanth Does the Evolutionary Dogma Re Man and Dinosaur Remain Unshaken?
Or, Do Those Dogon Antique Dinosaurs of West Africa Prove Science is Myth-Staken

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Feb 13 2013


Photo:Antique Dogon People’s Sculpture at the Metropolitan Museum of Art;Details and ID comparisons below.

The coelacanth is a species of fish which had been thought by evolutionists to have evolved 400 million years ago (before the dinosaurs) and to have become extinct 80 million years ago. That was until living specimens began to be found in 1938.

Question; what percentage wrong were evolutionary scientists about Coelacanth? I mean if you believed that they were a magical fish that would take you direct to Atlantis-on their backs if you said the secret word, you would be wrong- but really not that much more wrong than evolutionists had been. They believed up until 1938 that coelacanth walked on the sea bed using its two pairs of double fins, and that it represented a transitional form between land and sea creatures.

Shockingly for some, the living coelacanths discovered then and since look just like their fossils. Thus, evolutionists who discovered that they were off 80 million years in terms of extinction had to face the prospect of also being off 400 million years in terms of evolution. In 1938 it became known that there were no coelacanth experts but in a way one could understand their mistake; the coelocanth is all pre-historicky looking.



Similarly, there are no dinosaur experts either. No one really knows what they looked like. Many if not most ideas about them have already been proved wrong or have experienced “turbulence”. Species and types merge and disappear or are it almost seems randomly moved over to another tree or up and down said evolutionary tree.

Are they warm blooded or cold blooded? Covered with feathers? Last year science suggested that they have overestimated the size of some dinosaurs by 33% to 50%. A number of species of dinosaurs completely disappeared last year when it was decided that some individuals were merely juvenile versions of another type of dinosaur.

Paleontologists are famous for naming essentially the same dinosaur found in various locales and respective continents the ME-o-saurus (“ME” being the name of each discoverer). Science tells us that dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago but I’m afraid that the historical data tells us otherwise. We’ll take a quick peek at a few artifacts from West Africa (some previously seen here) to see if its credible to believe that man and dinosaur never coexisted.

The Dogon Peoples

“The Bandiagara Cliffs The Dogon are an ethnic group living in the central plateau region of the country of Mali, in the West of the Continent of Africa, south of the Niger bend, near the city of Bandiagara, in the Mopti region. The population numbers between 400,000 and 800,000[1] The Dogon are best known for their religious traditions, their mask dances, wooden sculpture and their architecture…….


The principal Dogon area is bisected by the Bandiagara Escarpment, a sandstone cliff of up to 500m (1,640 ft) high, stretching about 150 km (90 miles). To the southeast of the cliff, the sandy Séno-Gondo Plains are found, and northwest of the cliff are the Bandiagara Highlands. Historically, Dogon villages were established in the Bandiagara area in consequence of the Dogon people’s collective refusal to convert to Islam a thousand years ago.

Dogon insecurity in the face of these historical pressures caused them to locate their villages in defensible positions along the walls of the escarpment. The other factor influencing their choice of settlement location is water. The Niger River is nearby and in the sandstone rock, a rivulet runs at the foot of the cliff at the lowest point of the area during the wet season.


Dogon art is primarily sculpture. Dogon art revolves around religious values, ideals, and freedoms (Laude, 19). Dogon sculptures are not made to be seen publicly, and are commonly hidden from the public eye within the houses of families, sanctuaries, or kept with the Hogon (Laude, 20). The importance of secrecy is due to the symbolic meaning behind the pieces and the process by which they are made.

Themes found throughout Dogon sculpture consist of figures with raised arms, superimposed bearded figures, horsemen, stools with caryatids, women with children, figures covering their faces, women grinding pearl millet, women bearing vessels on their heads, donkeys bearing cups, musicians, dogs, quadruped-shaped troughs or benches, figures bending from the waist, mirror-images, aproned figures, and standing figures (Laude, 46-52). Signs of other contacts and origins are evident in Dogon art. The Dogon people were not the first inhabitants of the cliffs of Bandiagara. Influence from Tellem art is evident in Dogon art because of its rectilinear designs (Laude, 24).”..Wikipedia

Dogon Zoomorphic Head


Time Period’ 1800-early 1900’s. The Dogon Peoples. Mali Dimensions:
H x W: 8 x 1in. (20.3 x 2.5cm) Wood and Iron
The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The Bryce Holcombe Collection of African Decorative Art, Bequest of Bryce Holcombe, 1984

The item is described as “zoomorphic. It is an animal or animal like, but the museum is not able or ready to make an identification. They may consider it to be a mythological creature. In our view it closely matches the current view of the appearance of the crested, duck billed dinosaurs-the lambeosaurines although few if any hadrosaur fossils have been found in West Africa.

Here we show the sculpture in comparison to one of the crested hadrosaurine dinosaurs, hypacrosaurus.


Hypacrosaurus was a genus of duckbill dinosaur similar in appearance to Corythosaurus. Like Corythosaurus, it had a tall, hollow rounded crest, although not as large and straight. It is known from the remains of two species that spanned 75 to 67 million years ago, in the Late Cretaceous of Alberta, Canada, and Montana, USA, and is the latest hollow-crested duckbill known from good remains in North America. It was an obscure genus until the description of nests, eggs, and hatchlings belonging to H. stebingeri in the 1990s.

It is not our intent to claim that this traditional Dogon sculpture represents hypacrosaurus, merely that it likely represents one of the closely related lambeosauine, crested, duckbilled dinosaurs. The specific type may have yet to be discovered. There are alternate suggestions for this piece of sculpture including a crested duck but we think that it very closely resembles a dinosaur that was thought by science to have gone extinct 65 million years ago.

500 Year Old Dogon Bipedal Statue


The Dogon peoples have become somewhat of the darlings of individuals around the world who believe that ancient technological prowess which is an enigma can best be explained by the belief that in the distant past the earth was visited by advanced aliens who imparted their knowledge to humans in some fashion. There are real archaeological anomalies out there and if one doesn’t have a Genesis/biblical system of belief it easy to see why many would find the ability of the current scientific paradigm to explain them insufficient and why they would construct alternate theories do deal with them.

“Certain researchers investigating the Dogon have reported that they seem to possess advanced astronomical knowledge, the nature and source of which have subsequently become embroiled in controversy. From 1931 to 1956 the French anthropologist Marcel Griaule studied the Dogon. This included field missions ranging from several days to two months in 1931, 1935, 1937 and 1938 and then annually from 1946 until 1956. In late 1946 Griaule spent a consecutive thirty-three days in conversations with the Dogon wiseman Ogotemmêli, the source of much of Griaule and Dieterlen’s future publications.

They reported that the Dogon believe that the brightest star in the sky, Sirius (sigi tolo or ‘star of the Sigui’, has two companion stars, p tolo (the Digitaria star), and mm ya tolo, (the female Sorghum star), respectively the first and second companions of Sirius A. Sirius, in the Dogon system, formed one of the foci for the orbit of a tiny star, the companionate Digitaria star. When Digitaria is closest to Sirius, that star brightens: when it is farthest from Sirius, it gives off a twinkling effect that suggests to the observer several stars. The orbit cycle takes 50 years. They also claimed that the Dogon appeared to know of the rings of Saturn, and the moons of Jupiter.
Griaule and Dieterlen were puzzled by this Sudanese star system, and prefaced their analysis with the following

remark:-
The problem of knowing how, with no instruments at their disposal, men could know the movements and certain characteristics of virtually invisible stars has not been settled, nor even posed.

In 1976 Robert K. G. Temple wrote a book called The Sirius Mystery arguing that the Dogon’s system reveals precise knowledge of cosmological facts only known by the development of modern astronomy, since they appear to know, from Griaule and Dieterlen’s account, that Sirius was part of a binary star system, whose second star, Sirius B, a white dwarf, was however completely invisible to the human eye, (just as Digitaria is the smallest grain[clarification needed] known to the Dogon), and that it took 50 years to complete its orbit. The existence of Sirius B had only been inferred to exist through mathematical calculations undertaken by Friedrich Bessel in 1844. Temple then argued that the Dogon’s information, if traced back to ancient Egyptian sources and myth, indicated an extraterrestrial transmission of knowledge of the stars. Neither Griaule nor Dieterlen had ever made such bold claims about a putative esoteric source for the Dogon’s knowledge.”…Wikipedia


I mention the foregoing because this little 500 year old Dogon metal statue has been swept up into this alien story by calling it a Nommo, a kind of fish/amphibian god slash alien.

Its reptilian, its walking in a bipedal fashion and its strange looking. For purposes of the alien scenario it fits in nicely-if you ignore the fact that it looks quite a bit like a terrestrial animal we know well.

From the Genesis creation account perspective, however it clearly fits as a creation of the first six days; a bipedal dinosaur.

Here we compare it with a more or less random, carnivorous, three toed, bipedal dinosaur.

Which is it”, then an alien fish/amphibian god representative –or an indication that the Dogon peoples of West Africa interacted with, carnivorous, bipedal dinosaurs within the last 1,000 years?

Mystery of the African (Dogon) Ornithopod Dinosaur

Around the time Sir Richard Owen had coined the term “dinosaur” to describe the giant “terrible lizards” whose bones were then being discovered in the mid-1800′s the Dogon tribe was creating art which appears to represent one of them riding one of those creatures.



Features of the “dinosaur” are accurate enough for a species identification to be made. An Ornithopod dinosaur, in our humble opinion.

The birdlike head with strong jawline, “duck bill”; and the knees appearing to bend in the “wrong” direction (opposite ours) separate this dinosaur from the sauropods.

In actuality the front legs do bend in the opposite direction, but it the high ankles of these creatures which make it appear that the rear legs also bend in the forward direction.

Examples of the Ornithopod dinosaur depicted include; iguanadon and hadrosaurus as shown below. Note also the accuracy of this African depiction compared to early “scientific” depictions.

It’s interesting to note that the gallery showing this piece claims that this is dinosaur, from the mid-1800′s and that they can authenticate its age and origin. If you’ve got a spare $1,200, pick it up and send us a photo of the other side of the piece.

Antique African bronze dinosaur



Dogon Tribe African bronze vessel in the form of dinosaur, with the lid, on the lid a seated human figurine, the body of the vessel with linear scarifications, long tail. Covered in a light earthen patina. Antique African artifact 1800′s AD. This antique African artifact comes with a certificate of authenticity and time period.
All ancient artifacts and antiques, ancient jewelry, ancient statues, etc. are guaranteed to be authentic and from the time period stated.

All artifacts come with a certificate of authenticity and time period. We specialize in antiquities located in our online Treasures of the World gallery at World Wide Store.

View our ancient artifacts list view or aisles for other extraordinary artifacts. Also see other categories, Ancient artifacts Byzantine, Celtic, Cycladic, Egyptian, European, Greek, Holy land, Luristan, Mesopotamian, Persian, Roman, Syrian, African artifacts, Maya, and Prehistoric artifacts.

Many artifacts are rare and date back as far as 3000 BC. All artifacts are guaranteed to be authentic. Artifacts are one of a kind. If the item you want has already sold we may have something similar available.
Antique African bronze dinosaur
1800′s AD
measures: 14″ x 7 1/2″ $1200.00…..Treasures of the World”

Photo:Artifact with Iguanadon middle, and hadrosaurus, bottom.


When we discovered this artifact online, it had already been purchased by our friend Vance Nelson at CreationTruthMinistries.org. He currently has it in his possession and this new photo is Copyright CreationTruthMinistries.

Looking at the piece again we were struck by how detailed it actually is; the “skin” of the “dinosaur” could also provide evidence that the artist actually saw a living version of the creature at a time scientific depictions of dinosaurs were still “primitive”.

Note the diamond shapes that cover the entire creature. Does that feature match up with any modern dinosaur discoveries we wondered; remembering that we thought the artifact represented an Ornithopod dinosaur.

Hadrosaur Skeleton Found

“The hadrosaur skeleton itself which includes parts of the hip, a femur, part of a foot, and a 10-foot section of tail that is missing its tip is already an uncommon discovery because it is the most complete dinosaur skeleton, and the first crested hadrosaur, ever discovered in southern Utah’s Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, says Alan Titus, a BLM paleontologist with the monument. Geology and paleontology were part of the reason this monument was established, Titus says.

This specimen is also special because many of the skin impressions were found in direct contact with the bone, so scientists can place with confidence the different scale patterns on particular parts of the dinosaur, Titus adds.

The specimen has two distinct skin patterns, says David Gillette, the dig’s lead scientist and a curator of the Museum of Northern Arizona. A diamond-shaped pattern was found near the tail’s tip, he says, while a more irregular and polygonal pattern was uncovered closer to the hip”….Geotimes, oct 2001

Other West African Dinosaurs and Supposedly Extinct Animals

The West African area seems to have been a hotbed of ancient dinosaur activity. In addition to the Dogon of Mali, items from the nearby Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Niger, the Sudan, Chad and Cameroon, most of which are not included in this article abound.

Not Just Dinosaurs; the Ancient West African’s Clearly “Interacted” with “Extinct” Elephant: Did Platybelodon Become Extinct Between 5 Million and 25 Million Years Ago-Or Did He Live in the Recent Past?


If dogs had become extinct 400 to 500 years ago, evolutionists probably would have created an elaborate family tree and asserted that the various types had evolved over millions of years. Maybe the Pekinese, Chihuahuas and Boxers would have been selected as the older more primitive dogs who would later, in this evolutionary scenario have evolved into the physically larger more gracile forms such as the Collie, the German Shepherd, the Greyhound and the Whippet. No doubt the wolf and other dog breeds would be in the middle branches somewhere.

Evolutionists see the animal tree as essentially a vertical one where millions of years are needed for creatures to evolve from one form to another. Creationists believe that the relationship between animals is horizontal with all forms living at the same time and/or genetic variations of the same type separated by time or distance. The polar bear and the brown bear are still bears, who exhibit their built in genetic variation.

The elephant as we know him is supposed to have evolved from more primitive forms of the order Proboscidea. One such “primitive” alleged elephant was Platybelodon, supposedly extinct before the evolution of modern man. But hey, why is one perched on top of this ancient Sudanese hat? (Fossils of platybelodon have also been found on the continent of Africa.)

“Platybelodon (“flat-tusk”) was a genus of large herbivorous mammal related to the elephant (order Proboscidea).
It lived during the Miocene Epoch, about 15-4 million years ago. Although it thrived during its time, it did not survive past the Miocene and is now extinct.

Some have speculated that it became too specialized and was unable to adapt to changing environmental conditions. Platybelodon was previously believed to have fed in the swampy areas of grassy savannas using its teeth to shovel up aquatic and semi-aquatic vegetation.

Photo, right: The animal displayed on the top of the Antique Sudanese “Hat” is compared with modern depictions of platybelodon.


However, wear patterns on the teeth suggest that it used its lower tusks to strip bark from trees. Platybelodon was very similar to the Amebelodon, another gomphothere species.

Another possibility is that it used its shovel-tusks to dig for water in dry seasons.
Due to the shape of the two lower teeth, which are worn by many gomphothere species (such as Platybelodon and Amebelodon) they are popularly known as shovel tuskers”….Wikipedia

Habitat
Platybelodon lived in wet parts of prairies and ate soft plants (including water plants).
When Platybelodon Lived
This prehistoric elephant lived during the middle to late Miocene (roughly 25 million years ago).
Classification
Platybelodon was an early mammal. Class Mammalia (mammals), Order Proboscidea, Suborder Elephantoidea (elephants), Family Gomphothere (closely related to Amebelodon), Genus Platybelodon.
Fossils
Fossils of Platybelodon have been found in North America, eastern Europe, Africa, and northwestern China (these animals probably crossed via the Siberian land bridge between the continents of Asia and North America)”….Enchanted Learning.com

  

Baule Ancient Dinosaur from Ivory Coast? BAULE ZOOMORPHIC SEAT, ULIMBI BIA, IVORY COAST
Price Realized $7,500
Estimate
$3,000 – $4,000
Sale Information
Sale 2661
Arts of Africa, Oceania and the Americas including Property from the Estate of Ernst Beyeler
10 May 2012
New York, Rockefeller Plaza
TRADITIONAL SCULPTURE FROM UPPER VOLTA
An Exhibition of objects from New-York museums and private collectors
Exhibition Catalog, October 24, 1978 – March 24, 1979
New York, The African-American Institute
1978
Lot Description
BAULE ZOOMORPHIC SEAT, ULIMBI BIA, IVORY COAST
Length: 44½ in. (113 cm.)

This item is compared to a mid-sized quadrupedal dinosaur. This piece has four legs so it is not a bird. Morphologically it is quite similar to this dinosaur depiction. It does not appear to be a lizard.


“The Baule belong to the Akan peoples who inhabit Ghana and Côte d’Ivoire. Three hundred years ago the Baule people migrated westward from Ghana when the Asante rose to power. The tale of how they broke away from the Asante has been preserved in their oral traditions.

During the Asante rise to power the Baule queen, Aura Poku, was in direct competition with the current Asante king. When the Asante prevailed, the queen led her people away to the land they now occupy. The male descendant of Aura Poku still lives in the palace she established and is honored by the Baule as their nominal king.” Arts of Africa

  

An Assembly of Various Allegedly “Extinct for Millions of Years Creatures” In Traditional Upper Volta Sculpture


TRADITIONAL SCULPTURE FROM UPPER VOLTA
An Exhibition of objects from New-York museums and private collectors
Exhibition Catalog, October 24, 1978 – March 24, 1979
New York
The African-American Institute
1978
26 x 21 cm

This antique sculpture from the Upper Volta region (now called Burkina Faso) appears to represent several creatures thought to have been extinct for millions of years. The quadrupeds have horned faces as do the ceratopsian dinosaurs and the bipedal, non human, winged creatures appear to represent several types of pterosaurs.

Both pterosaurs and birds have keeled breastbones but it is especially noticeable on this antique sculpture.

Conclusion:

These are just a few examples of art and artifacts from Western Africa which indicate a familiarity with various types of extinct dinosaurs and other creatures. Can some of them be explained away?

Perhaps.

Can all of them be explained away as mythological or fake? I don’t think so. We’ve encountered hundreds of examples of ancient or antique artifacts that we think prove that just as science was wrong with respect to the ceolocanth by 80,000,000 years (with no evolutionary changes in 400,000,000 evolution years) it is certainly possible that they are also wrong about the evolution of and extinction of the dinosaurs.

Video: Giant Obelisk Discovered In the Atlantic?

Church of Darwin, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jan 05 2013

Photo: Valley of the Pyramids. East Coast of the U.S. by F.M. Salichs
By Frank Martin Salich   

Note: Video access at end of this post.

We were initially contacted by Frank Martin Salich in early December. He wrote:

Hello. I’ve recently become convinced that God has preserved evidence of many pre-flood cities on the Earth’s ocean floors! I’ve discovered hundreds of miles of structures, and dozens of pyramids. There are cities with miles of straight rows of structures. Here are a few of the vast number of undersea structures which are all over the world’s oceans. My goal is to expose these images as much as possible for the world to see. “Whereby the world which then was, being overflowed with water perished.”
2 Peter 3: 6 GOD bless you. Frank

Along with his note he included 10 or 15 photos purportedly showing underwater objects around the world in the shape of pyramids or other potentially man formed shaped.

Now, we don’t have a problem with the idea of underwater cities and monuments; one of the early stories we covered here at s8int.com concerned underwater pyramids and structures 1/2 mile down off the coast of Cuba. In fact we had a number of stories about that potential site”.

We still had questions about the “photos” he sent us. Were they actually photos? Graphics? What?
These are not photos, correct, Frank?

His response:

“That is correct. They are not photos. They are Googlearth6 images of underwater topography, and what I believe to be pyramids and man-made structures on the ocean’s floors. Googlearth6 provides an ocean application. You can explore the world’s oceans just like you would above ground with Googlearth6.

Photo: 4 Pyramids off of the Coast of Florida by F.M. Salichs
The satellite technology apparently creates accurate imagery of the topography. You can rotate your view and move around from place to place just like the above ground Googlearth. Shallow bodies of water will not always allow underwater imagery. I’ve found several pyramids off the SOUTHEAST coast of Florida, one of them probably being the one that’s been reportedly located with sonar. I’ll send you an image of it. I’ve also found 5 pyramids in the Bahamas.

Believe it or not, I’ve also found hundreds of pyramids off the eastern seaboard, from New Foundland to South Carolina. More recently, I’ve found pyramids in, of all places, the Gulf of Mexico, from Mississippi to Texas. I’ve saved images of pyramids, and what appear to be man-made structures, in the North and South Poles, the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

I’ve invested hundreds of hours in search of these images and I want to share them with the world! I’ll send you a few more. I’ll continue to upload more images on http://www.disclose.tv/. Look up ‘Undersea Pyramid’. Martin

O.K. What we wanted to know as well is whether his work could be duplicated? Could anyone, given the proper coordinates and with the use of Googlearth6 find his same objects? I did verify that with Googlearth6 one can “go under water” and move around on the sea bottom; virtual-ly. I did so, myself and it looks like the photos we have here-absent the objects. I wasn’t able to find any of his objects but I only spent a few minutes verifying that it could be done. It’s difficult to get the hang of moving around on the sea floor.

Another concern I/we have is about the technology for assembling these images using sonar and/or side scan sonar. Does the technology itself create artifacts? Does it create 90 degree angles or corners that aren’t actually a feature of the object being scanned? We still don’t know the answers to those questions.

Photo:6 points ” cathedral” pyramid by F.M. Salichs
Back in 2009, , a grid pattern in the water off the coast of northern Africa raised speculation that it contained the streets of Atlantis, the legendary sunken city, but Google poured cold water on the idea. Google asserted that the unusual grid pattern was caused by sonar boats that collected the radar data.

Will this be a similar case? It is reasonable to suppose that if there was indeed a worldwide flood as I believe, that there might be large man made artifacts left under the world’s oceans.

Mr. Salichs has produced a video showing one of his artifacts; a 640 foot obelisk that he says he found off the coast of New Jersey. The video shows him virtual-ly moving above and around the object. Here’s a concern I have about the monument–what’s the terrestrial analogue? I mean where on dry land is a similar object?

Here’s his video intro. Thanks for giving us a look, Frank.

“While exploring the oceans with GOOGLE EARTH6 I found a 640 ft obelisk style tower. It is located approx. 120 mls off the coast of New Jersey. Sitting on a very large plane, with no other structures nearby for miles, it is taller than the Washington Monument, which stands at 555.5 ft. The base is rectangular with the long sides running from north to south.

Photo: Base of the Obelisk by F.M. Salichs

On the east side of the base you can clearly see squared sections with very long, straight lines and right angles angling away from the base. The lower east portion of the base has a large round opening, showing it to be hollowed out.

The tower is cylindrical and stands straight, like a towering redwood tree, with the top coming to a fine point. 10 miles east of this obelisk is a 3 sided pyramid and 14 miles west of it near the continental shelf are dozens and dozens of pyramids, very clearly visible and defined by GOOGLE EARTH6 satellite imagery. I will be posting more videos and images of these very shortly.”…Frank Martin Salichs, December 25, 2012

Ancient Viking Brachiosaurus? Plus; Remarkarble Correlation Of Ancient Sauropod Depictions with Specific Genera of Sauropoda

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Dec 24 2012

Photo: How to Train Your Dragon? Viking vs Brachiosaurus.

“Look at Behemoth, which I made just as I made you; it eats grass like an ox. Its strength is in its loins, and its power in the muscles of its belly. It makes its tail stiff like a cedar; the sinews of its thighs are knit together. Its bones are tubes of bronze, its limbs like bars of iron. It is the first of the great acts of God— only its Maker can approach it with the sword.” …Job 40 15-19 New Revised Standard Version

“Megasthenes writeth, that there be serpents among the Indians to that bignesse, that they are able to swallow stags or buls all whole….Attilius Regulaus, generall under the Romanes, during the warres against the Carthaginians, assailed a Serpent neere the river Bagrada, which caried in length 120 foot…” Book 8 Pliny’s Natural History

Ancient Viking Brachiosaurus?
by Chris Parker
Copyright 2012

Photo: From the latter part of this article; fully explained below.


Dragons; sometimes huge, reptilian, dangerous, sometimes winged, sometimes not creatures – are reported not as mythological but as real in every ancient culture on every continent. Of course, those creatures that we now call dinosaurs were also sometimes huge, dangerous, sometimes winged, sometimes not creatures – that lived on every continent. (Technically pterosaurs are not considered dinosaurs).

Among those ancient cultures who described living dragons were the Norse and that subset of the Norse culture the Vikings.

The Vikings

Painting: Just to be clear; the “dragon” on the ship’s prow is not our subject today.


“The Vikings (from Old Norse víkingr) were the Norse explorers, warriors, merchants, and pirates who raided, traded, explored and settled in wide areas of Europe, Asia and the North Atlantic islands from the late 8th to the mid-11th century.

These Norsemen used their famed longships to travel as far east as Constantinople and the Volga River in Russia, and as far west as Iceland, Greenland, and Newfoundland, and as far south as Nekor. This period of Viking expansion – known as the Viking Age – forms a major part of the medieval history of Scandinavia, Great Britain, Ireland and the rest of Medieval Europe.

Popular conceptions of the Vikings often differ from the complex picture that emerges from archaeology and written sources. A romanticised picture of Vikings as Germanic noble savages began to take root in the 18th century, and this developed and became widely propagated during the 19th-century Viking revival.

The received views of the Vikings as violent brutes or intrepid adventurers owe much to the modern Viking myth which had taken shape by the early 20th century. Current popular representations are typically highly clichéd, presenting the Vikings as familiar caricatures.

    The Norse Dragon Tradition

Dragons are common in Norse lore; we associate viking raiders with dragon headed ships. However this is slightly misleading because Norse lore made no distinction between dragons per se and serpents. A serpent was simply a dragon without wings.

In Nordic mythology, the figure of the dragon was often used as symbol of material greed, and harbringers of destruction, that is to say: they acquired a clearly negative symbolism, (unlike some aspects of the dragon in Eastern mythology). Clearly this makes them excellent figureheads for Viking raiders!

One of the most important Norse dragons is Nithhogr. This creature lives at the base of the world tree Yggdrasil and gnaws at the roots, attempting to destroy it. Nithhogr also devours the corpses of the dead. The world serpent Jormungandr would also be classed as a dragon in Norse lore. Jormungandr – the Midgard serpent – lives in the waters curled in a circle round the world and biting his own tail.

Another well-known Norse dragon tale is that of Fafnir, who was turned into a dragon by his greed and who was slain by Siegfried. The hero Scandanavian hero Beowulf also fought dragons. Some have classed grendel and his mother as dragons, however they are more usually considered to be some form of troll”.Dragonrama

An Antique Viking Diplodocus?


This “ANCIENT VIKING BRONZE ZOOMORPHIC PENDANT,RARE” is actually a pendant currently on sale on Ebay. It is a bronze, zoomorphic depiction of a long necked, quadruped with curled tail used as a connection for the wire to be passed through for a wearer. The item actually has “bumpy skin” in the manner of the sauropod dinosaurs we believe it represents.

Not much information is provided about the object other than that which has been provided above. The location of the seller is Latvia, the seller is gint5812 who has a 100% approval rating. I’m not providing a link because the item has been sold and I have no way of knowing how long the link will be active.

The item is a “pendant”, approximately 3 inches from tail to nose. Is the item a real, antique Viking pendant? we can’t prove it is, however the surest way to have an object declared a fake is to present it in the shape of a dinosaur.

We have additional views of the object as well as comparisons with modern depictions of a certain type of sauropod dinosaur.

Sauropod dinosaurs are probably the most easily recognized type of dinosaur. They are large, long necked with a stocky body and a long tail. However, there were differences among the various types of sauropods and we believe that rather than just generally identifying this ancient depiction as a sauropod I believe we can go even further and identify the specific type of sauropod dinosaur that is being represented.

Of course, sauropod dinosaurs supposedly became extinct over 65 million years ago.


Right we compare a side view of the artifact along with a side view of a brachiosaurus skull and a modern version of brachiosaurus.

Brachiosaurus has a distinctive shaped head among the sauropods; it has a “bulb” or a large bulge on the top frontal portion of its skull. Various artists and paleontologists have represented that bulge in a number of ways in modern depictions. The skull of diplodocus is longer and more horse like than is the skull of brachiosaurus. Camarsaurus and Euhelopus have more rounded skulls. We believe that this ancient, Viking artifact specifically represents what science calls the brachiosaurus today. A chart showing these sauropod skulls is provided a bit further down in this post.

A potential issue (among some would say, many) is that brachiosaurus is supposed to be an American dinosaur even though “related” dinosaurs and potential brachiosaurus remains have been found in Africa and Europe.

Does this prove that these Vikings made it to America? I’m not serious. One of the many differences that creationists have with evolutionists is that the need for isolated populations creates a bias for continent only dinosaurs. Creationists are not surprised when the same species appears on many or even all continents.


This grouping (photo) is not from Wikipedia and provides a comparison between the heads of modern depictions of brachiosaurus from fossil remains and a possible ancient eyewitness depiction.

“Brachiosaurus is a genus of sauropod dinosaur from the Jurassic Morrison Formation of North America. It was first described by Elmer S. Riggs in 1903 from fossils found in the Grand River Canyon (now Colorado River) of western Colorado, in the United States. Riggs named the dinosaur Brachiosaurus altithorax, declaring it “the largest known dinosaur”. Brachiosaurus had a proportionally long neck, small skull, and large overall size, all of which are typical for sauropods. However, the proportions of Brachiosaurus are unlike most sauropods.

The forelimbs were longer than the hindlimbs, which result in a steeply inclined trunk, making the overall body shape reminiscent of a modern giraffe. Also, while the tail is a typical long dinosaur tail, it was relatively short for a sauropod.

Brachiosaurus is the namesake genus of the family Brachiosauridae, which includes a handful of other similar sauropods. Much of what is known by laypeople about Brachiosaurus is in fact based on Giraffatitan brancai, a species of brachiosaurid dinosaur from the Tendaguru Formation of Tanzania that was originally described by German paleontologist Werner Janensch as a species of Brachiosaurus. Recent research shows that the differences between the type species of Brachiosaurus and the Tendaguru material are significant enough that the African material should be placed in a separate genus. Several other potential species of Brachiosaurus have been described from Africa and Europe, but none of them are thought to belong to Brachiosaurus at this time.”…Wikipedia

The Upshot


How do we account for the close match of the head of this artifact with the actual skull of brachiosaurus? Is this some quadrupedal, dragon like, reptile like (with “reptile” skin”) and frankly brachiosaurus like object nevertheless a wholly mythological depiction? Is that the simplest explanation or is it more likely that the maker of this artifact was familiar enough with the animal to make even a stylized form of it–which others would also recognize?

There must be an infinite number of mythological animal shapes from which an artist could choose from. Wouldn’t it be too much of a coincidence to believe that a purely mythological animal had nearly exact feature matches with a creature that allegedly became extinct 65 million years ago? “Behold now behemoth”!

Just for Kicks, Two Additional Viking Sauropods?


The same seller has another artifact, also described as an ancient Viking Zoomorphic bronze pendant, (rare). The location of the object is also Latvia.

The bidding has closed at $140.00. This artifact has the “telltale” head bulge on top of its head.

   

SOLID 830 SILVER DRAGON TEA SET 1892 ANTIQUE NORWEGIAN

This piece can be associated with the seven others that we are showing below because they all clearly represent the same long necked creature. We are making what we believe is the proper identfication below.


“A stunning rare Norwegian sterling silver tea set. It is hallmarked with the 830S standard mark and the makers mark of David Andersen, Christiania (the name for Oslo pre 1924), and the date 1892. For those unaware Andersen is regarded as Norway’s most sought after maker. It has been beautifully made being designed around a dragon theme. The teapot has a cast dragon spout and handle and cast dragon feet, the sugar bowl and cream jug have dragon handles and feet. Each piece has been engraved DK or KD as they are entwined.

Photo: Right 1910 Sauropod Drawing


It is in outstanding condition being free from dings splits and repairs. The pot handle wobbles a little due to the shrinkage of the natural insulator rings but this is very easy for a silversmith to put right and there are of course a couple of faint marks but nothing of any significance”.

This piece sold for approximately $2,200. The date of 1892 means that it was created some 15 years after the bones were intially discovered in 1877. The head of the “dragon” matches the other six dragons from across time and around the world that we show below.

We do not need to suppose that David Anderson the maker actually saw a live sauropod-only that at that through that time the depiction of this dinosaur was known and rather consistently drawn and sculpted. The detail and style of depictions of these dinosaurs at tha time were nothing like the current versions of these creatures.
   
Remarkable Correlation Of Ancient Sauropod Depictions with Specific Genera of Sauropoda Across Time and Continents (How to Terrain Your Dragons?)

Here’s that promised sauropod skull chart. Notice that cranial bulge on the skull of brachiosaurus? If there were in fact ancient depictions of this sauropod might we not notice today the long neck, dragon nature, long tail and the telltale head bulge? see story above.


We have been noting for some time that man and sauropod certainly interacted in the recent past.

Although in most respects these creatures are quite similar there are characteristics of the skull that might allow us to show not only that man was an eyewitness to living examples of these creatures but with specific genera of the sauropoda!

The 5,300 Year Old Mesopotamian Diplodocus on an ancient cylinder seal.

This ancient cylinder seal, currently housed at the Louvre Museum portrays sauropod like creatures as well as giant “birds” or pterosaurs. The seal is from Mesopotamia, approximately 3300 B.C. (Moortgart, Anton, The Art of Ancient Mesopotamia, 1969, plate 292., presumably seen by the artist.


I would ask that the interested reader note the points of similarity between a close-up of the “sauropod” depiction created by rolling the cylinder with the skull of Diplodocus Longus. This is the basis for me to call this creature and the consistent comparisons below diplodocus depictions.

    

Tang Dynasty Euhelopus

The Euhelopus skull is shown in the chart above. It is the skull in the top, left of the chart. Its skull is more rounded than that of either brachiosaurus or diplodocus. The artifact shown is more than 2,000 years more recent and on an entirely different continent.

Euhelopus; Source: Thinkquest.org

One of the big plant-eating dinosaurs similar to Camarasaurus, Euhelopus, or “good marsh foot,” had a longer neck and nose. Like Camarasaurus, it had strong teeth that grew around its jaws.


Other dinosaurs of this type had teeth growing only in front. Euhelopus had large nostrils on top of its head. Because of this, some scientists think it had a long trunk. That would have made it look very strange.

Photo: Collection description: Tang Dynasty (618 A.D.-906 A.D.) nephrite jade finial in the shape of a bird’s head (sic). It was probably used as a handle for a knife or other such implement. There is a bit of calcification on the jade, but it is an exquisite piece. It’s in a private collection on sale for $5,500.00

Both Camarasaurus and Euhelopus were camarasaurid (chambered lizard) dinosaurs, with hollow chambers in the backbone.

Euhelopus was a little slimmer than Camarasaurus, but large members of the family may have weighed as much as 24 tons. The biggest could have been up to 50 feet in length – without trunk. From fossil remains, scientists believed they were at home in marshy land at the bank of muddy rivers or in swamps.

They would have been safer there than on dry or wooded land where big flesh eater roamed.

Location: Shandong, People’s Republic of China
Size: Length- 50 feet (15m)
Classification: Family-Camarasauridae
Suborder-Sauropodomorpha
Order-Saurischia
Time: Late Jurassic


It may not be possible to readily identify the specific similarity of the Euhelopus sauropod depiction with that of the Tang Dynasty artifact. On the right we’ve placed the unedited drawing of the Euhelopus skull (except that we tinted it red) on top of the artifact for comparison. What do you think? Bird or sauropod?

    

Diplodocus, Right to Left, Around the World and Across Culture and Eras-Click to enlarge photo. 

We believe that each of these depictions is of diplodocus, which has a flatter skull than does Brachiosaurus or the other rounder headed sauropods, Camarsarus and Euhelopus. There is a remarkable consistency between the depictions, whatever it is that is in the artist’s eye. The depictions span a time period beginning 5,300 years ago through the Acambaro depiction of possibly the last 1,000 years.


From left to Right:(A)This is another version of the Mesopotamian cylinder seal (colorized). 3,300 B.C. Currently housed at Louvre Museum.

(B) Coffee Pot. By: Unidentified artist, Portuguese (Lisbon)
19th century, about 1825-1850 Metal; silver, wooden handle 29.5 x 26.7
Curved steamed body, 4-sided, heavy moulding below long contracted neck. Flattened domed cover. On 4 claw-ball feet. Curved spout flat at back, with animal’s head tip. Angular wooden handle. Cast parrot on ball, finial screwed to cover. Bands of floral repousse at base, above and below mid-moulding, at neck and on cover.
Museum of Fine Arts, Boston

(C)From the Vietnamese Bronze Age: 3rd century A.D. Cast bronze. Museum of Fine Arts, Boston. Dongson culture.

(D)Bronze Ladle with “dragon head” handle. Han dynasty(220 B.C. to approx 220 A.D… Chinaweb
(E)Acambaro Mexico. Carbon dated to 1,500 to 4,000 years old. http://www.omniology.com/ManyDinos.jpg

(F)Record ID: HAMP-9A5B16
Object type: BRIDLE FITTING
Broad period: EARLY MEDIEVAL
County: HAMPSHIRE
Workflow stage: Awaiting validation
A slightly corroded fragment from a late early-medieval/Anglo-Scandinavian cast copper-alloy cheekpiece (c. 11th century AD). The fragment is formed of a curved Ringerike style animal head and neck in profile, possibly a dragon or sea monster. The cheekpiece is flat and the neck is long and the head is set at roughly right angles to it. On the outer edge of the curve is a recessed protrusion, broadly semicircular with a small central knop and suggestions of losses behind. At the end of the head is a recurving hook, perhaps representing a horn. Below are three small lobed protrusions …

The piece (F) on the far right is Scandavavian, from the 11th century A.D. The piece on the far left (A) is from 3300 B.C.-and yet from left to right the open minded can see that it is always the same creature that is being depicted; long necked, fleshy nosed and often bearded.

(G) 1892 Norwegian Tea Set. (Described above)

A word about the noses. It seems that the noses portrayed here for diplodocus are “fleshy” when compared with modern depictions. Here is a idea why the ancient depictions could be more accurate.

Study Paints New Picture of Dinosaur’s Nose. John Roach for National Geographic News August 2, 2001

A new study suggests that anyone who sits down to draw a detailed picture of what dinosaurs may have looked like will have to tweak the nose a bit to get it right. Usually the flesh-covered nasal passages of dinosaurs are shown toward the back of the openings in the nose bone. But Lawrence Witmer, a paleontologist at Ohio University in Athens, Ohio, says that’s wrong, and the nostrils were really much closer to the front, just above the mouth, and were larger than thought.

Photo:Science Tries Fleshy Nosed Diplodocus

The finding, which Witmer reported in the August 3 issue of Science, is significant not just because it changes our idea of what dinosaurs looked like. It also has implications for how dinosaurs breathed, smelled, and regulated their body temperature and water loss.

“I don’t know why we got it wrong for so long,” said Witmer. “In general, the fleshy nostril the opening into the nasal cavity has escaped scientific inquiry.” People have relatively small bony nostrils, so there’s little doubt about where the flesh-covered nasal passages can be located to effectively do their job. The bony noses of dinosaurs, however, could have been more than two feet (0.6 meters) long, which leaves the placement of the fleshy nostrils open to interpretation.

Late Survival Theorem, Regarding Chalicotherium
From A Comfy Chair, We I.D. Un-cuddly “Nandi Bear”?
Plus, a Terrace of Lions? Dude You’re not even Tryin’
Enigma’s & Mysteries Due to Skewed View of History

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, Fin De Siecle, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Dec 04 2012



Gen 1:25 And God made the beasts of the earth after their kinds, and cattle after their kinds, and every thing that creeps upon the earth after its kind:
and God saw that it was good.”

   
Can a Leopard Change Its Paradigm?

As a Christian my interests are not strictly limited to debates about the meaning of scripture, issues concerning salvation or debates concerning the existence of God. Those are all important to be sure but throughout history science has been driven by human curiosity about and discoveries concerning the world and the universe that God has made.

One of the interests I have is in something I like to call crypto-zoo-archaeology. Clues to the true history of our planet can be discovered by examining the art and artifacts of past civilizations. The truth is; studying and writing about what I and many others have found in these artifacts is another way of addressing; the meaning of scripture, issues concerning salvation and debates concerning the existence of God.


In this pursuit I have found that those who accept the literal creation account of Genesis have an incredible advantage in this arena. One can look at the artifacts of ancient history through at least two filters; 1)that all living creatures are descended from a single living cell and have evolved through some process (essentially linear and sequential) into the higher order living species that we see today, or 2)the Genesis account of creation which would mean that all living creatures including man have all lived together simultaneously through all history in essentially their current forms.

No matter which filter one uses much of ancient history will still be a puzzle. But using the wrong filter certainly leads to a copious number of; inconsistencies, anomalies, contradictions, unknowns, mysteries and a need to fill in missing information with speculations and assertions which are not data or evidence.

Personally, I have tested the Genesis account and found that what I see and what I expect to find in the historical and archaeological record better fit that filter.

Once one of the two above named paradigms are accepted however it is very difficult to see or even to consider evidence that conflicts with the paradigm. This is true whether you believe in evolution or in Creation ex Nihilo by God. This relative inability to see or except or even to evaluate evidence that might appear to conflict with your adopted paradigm afflicts even those among who are quite certain that we are actually open-minded and objective.

This doesn’t negate the fact that one of the referenced paradigms-is actually true-and that the selection of one or the other filter for your own life doesn’t have consequences.

When news outlets announced that James Cameron and others had allegedly found “the Jesus Tomb” it did not cause any consternation among us Christians who paid zero attention to the story. We waited for secular archaeologists to refute it-which they have. When news conferences, books and television series were coordinated around the announcement of an alleged human ancestor—which was going to change everything- exploded on the scene-“Ida”, I personally did not do a spit-take.

By the end of that year “Ida” was not even on lists for the top ten science stories of that year. “She/it had been debunked. I have never seen “evidence for evolution”. I’ve never seen a transitional fossil.

I accept that evolutionists have not seen evidence for the theory of creation either. However, shouldn’t just a single ancient artifact indicating that humans and dinosaurs lived together falsify the notion that we missed each other by 65 million years? In the 1920’s the World’s foremost archaeologist discovered human and dinosaur bones together in Mongolia and he found that they had fashioned jewelry by boring the shells and making ornaments of dinosaur eggs. (See our article: Dinosaur and Human Interactions in Our Times; the New York Times, LA Times, Chicago Sun Times ect)

Do I need to tell you that you need to use “fresh” un-fossilized dinosaur eggs for this purpose? Archaeologist, Roy Chapman Andrews, went on to become the director of the American Museum of Natural History-so how come so many evolutionists ask where there has ever been such evidence (of co-existence) ever in the world?

Let’s test my paradigm theory. Note the middle, right photograph compilation; the one with the three views of an archaeological object above. Once you read the museum’s description of the object, or perhaps prior thereto your filter goes into action.

“Colima Horned Toad. Protoclassic, ca. 100 B.C. to A.D. 250. Height: 5.3 in. (13.5 cm.); Length: 10.5 in. (26.7 cm.). Price: $2,250

There are four rows of spiked protrusions in high relief along the length of the body, and one row across the head, thirty in all. Coffee bean eyes, recessed nostrils, open mouth, spout as tail, and short legs create a reptile that seems pleased with his surroundings. Provenance: From a Riverside County, California Collection.”

Our article can be found Here.

Now, if you are a creationist, willing to believe that dinosaurs and man co-existed, you may see that the photo comparison with an armored dinosaur is very apt. If however, you are using the evolution filter it will be a toad. There is no way that it could be a dinosaur because you believe that they missed each other by 65 million years.

This is then, for you a toad, a fake or etc.. Paradigm preserved. Forehead unfurrowed. In the same way, of course, I have trouble accepting this as a toad because I see the dinosaur explanation as a better fit-however, I do believe that the toad explanation is a possibility.


These filters exist and work to protect us from having to flip flop our beliefs and our view on the world every five or six minutes.

Just above, left is another very interesting ancient artifact. This artifact is described by the curator as a “lion”. I picked this one out because I want to get into the heart of this post and talk about another group of famous lions. Most people would be perfectly willing to see this depiction as a “lion”.

“Early Islamic glass lion (zoomorphic balsamarium). 7th-9th century AD”.

Certainly no one would object to “mythological”, or “unknown animal” or even; “stylized lion figure”. One must make a decision and call it something. However, if you accept the evolutionary filter it is possible that a whole group of potential candidates can’t even be considered. What if the true depiction here is of some type of crested dinosaur? In the photo we’ve compared it to Olorotitan, a European, crested hadrosaur (top, right of photo) and to Amargasaurus, a crested sauropod. Fossils of the specific species have been found in Argentina.

My point is that creationists can consider the entire creation when examining an artifact but those using the other filter cannot—and maintain their paradigm-al purity. They must describe every artifact in terms of the ruling evolutionary paradigm or face the penalties that the scientific/academic/media culture will mete out. Can you imagine someone from Academia describing this as either a badly composed lion or possibly a sauropod like Amargasaurus?

So now let’s talk about some other depictions labeled “lions” by the archaeological establishment.

The Terrace of Lions at Delos


“The island of Delos, recognized as the birthplace of the god Apollo, has been a sacred area used for various reasons throughout history. Today it is one of the most important archaeological sites in Greece and is covered in excavations, one of which is the famous Terrace of the Lions. This terrace was erected and dedicated to Apollo by the people of Naxos just before 600 BCE.

The terrace consisted of a row of nine to twelve marble carved lions that faced eastward towards the Sacred Lake of Delos along the Sacred Way from Skardana Bay to the temples. The lions, with their mouths open as if roaring or snarling, were both meant to guard the sanctuaries and to inspire a feeling of divine fear among the worshippers. The way in which they were positioned is similar to the way sphinxes were set up along avenues in ancient Egypt.

Today, only five of the original lions remain with remnants of three others and the headless body of another has been transported and put over the main gate of a Venetian arsenal.” Biers, William R. The Archaeology of Greece. Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1996. Whitley, James. The Archaeology of Ancient Greece. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2001.

“The island of Delos near Mykonos, near the centre of the Cyclades archipelago, is one of the most important mythological, historical and archaeological sites in Greece. The excavations in the island are among the most extensive in the Mediterranean; ongoing work takes place under the direction of the French School at Athens and many of the artifacts found are on display at the Archaeological Museum of Delos and the National Archaeological Museum of Athens.”

Photo:Naxian Lions held at the Museum at Delos are less damaged.


Question? Are these in fact, lions? If they are lions, they are surely “stylized lions” because their proportions are incorrect. Their front legs are too long. They have three fingers paws. Their bodies are too long. This from a culture that provides us many examples of museum level, realistic depictions of lions and other animals. If these are lions built to “guard” the sanctuaries why aren’t they more self-evidently and accurately sculpted; lions?

Could they depict some other animal? Are they mythological?

Prior to trying to answer that, we switch to a more recent crypto-zoological mystery; the Nandi Bear of Kenya for reasons which I hope to make clear.

The Nandi Bear and Chalicotherium


“The Nandi Bear, also known as Ngoloko, is a cryptid, or unconfirmed animal, reported to live in Africa. It takes its name from the Nandi people who live in western Kenya, near where the Nandi Bear is reported as living.

Frank W. Lane wrote, “What the Abominable Snowman is to Asia, or the great Sea Serpent is to the oceans, the Nandi Bear is to Africa. It is one of the most notorious of those legendary beasts which have, so far, eluded capture and the collector’s rifle.

…Descriptions of the Nandi Bear are of a ferocious, powerfully built carnivore with high front shoulders (over four feet tall) and a sloping back; somewhat similar to a hyena. Some have speculated that Nandi Bears are in fact a misidentified hyena or a surviving Ice Age giant hyena: Karl Shuker states that a surviving short-faced hyena Pachycrocuta brevirostris,extinct ca. 500,000 years before present, would “explain these cases very satisfactorily.”

Other than the Atlas Bear (extinct by the 1800s), no bears are known to be native to Africa, besides those of the prehistoric genera Agriotherium and Indarctos, which died out 4.4 million years ago. Louis Leakey suggested that Nandi Bear descriptions matched that of the extinct Chalicotherium, though chalicotheres were herbivores.

The Nandi people call it Kerit. Local legend holds that it only eats the brain of its victims. Nandi Bears were regularly reported in Kenya throughout the 19th century and early 20th century. Bernard Heuvelmans’s On the Track of Unknown Animals and Karl Shuker’s In Search of Prehistoric Survivors provide the most extensive chronicles of Nandi bear sightings in print.”


A syndicated news article appearing Mansfield News of January 6, 1924 reported that a very large fresh, fragment of unfossilized claw of chalicotherium had been discovered at Bunyoro, Uganda ( Central Africa) and that the thought to be extinct chalicotherium might be very much still alive.

In fact, Zoologists were making a connection between the stories the Nandi peoples had been telling of a fearsome, man killing, brain eating deadly night creature they called “Gereit” might exist and was in fact, chalicotherium. The drawing above right, is from that 1924 article and is a depiction of chalicotherium.

“Chalicotherium, genus of extinct perissodactyls, the order including the horse and rhinoceros. Fossil remains of the genus are common in deposits of Asia, Europe, and Africa from the Miocene Epoch (23 to 5.3 million years ago). The genus persisted into the following Pliocene Epoch, and remains of a related genus, Moropus, are found in North America.


Chalicotherium and its relatives, collectively known as the chalicotheres, ( we’re not locking down on the genus) were very unusual in appearance and structure. In overall appearance the body and slim skull were horse like. The front limbs were longer than the hind limbs, and the back sloped downward. The teeth were distinctive in structure and unhorse like. The feet were quite distinctive.

There were no hooves; instead, each of the three toes on each foot terminated in a strongly developed claw. It is probable that the development of claws was related to the feeding habits of the animal. Chalicotherium may have browsed on branches of trees, pulling them down with the front claws; the claws may also have been employed to dig up roots and tubers.”…Encyclopedia Britannica

The Crux: is the Nandi Bear a Chalicotherium? And What of the Lions of the Terrace at Delos?

Photo: Left, drawing of the Nandi bear from eyewitness accounts and Right, a frontal view of one of the Terrace of Lions, “lions”.

The Chalicotherium is supposed to have gone extinct from 5-7 million years ago. The chalicotherium has been forth as a possible ID for the Nandi bear primarily because the chalicotherium is also known for having much longer front legs than back legs and to have claws as some eyewitness accounts of the Nandi bear have described it.

The Nandi bear is also a cryptid whose description fits no known, living animal so the late survival of some animal thought to have been prehistoric are put forward as potential suspects. Hyenadon is another animal thought to have been prehistoric that has also been put forth as a potential suspect for the same reasons; high front shoulders, long front legs and a sloping back.

The chalicotherium ID is interesting in that this animal also has very unusual feet and claws which set him apart.

Photo:Comparison of admittedly carefully selected chalicotherium depiction inserted into old photo of Naxian (Terrace of Lions) Lion at Delos.


I came across the Terrace of Lions of Delos quite by accident while investigationg some other matter and was struck by how un-lion-like the lions were. They are magnificent animals to be sure but not like any lions I’ve ever seen. Could they be depictions of real creatures-who were not lions?

I did a quick Google search for prehistoric animals with long front legs and immediately was taken to articles about chalicotherium. Articles about chalicotherium also eventually led to articles concerning modern day speculation by cryptozoologists that chalicotherium was a potential match for the Nandi bear, a cryptid that I was unaware of.

The photo at the top of this section shows a very common drawing of the Nandi bear (of unknown source) along with a frontal photo of one of the lions of the Terrace of Lions. This is interesting because as far as I know no one has ever speculated that the “lions” of the Terrace of Lions has anything to do with either the Nandi bear or with chalicotherium. So is this visual similarity (if your filters aren’t preventing you from seeing it or mine forcing me to) just a coincidence?

Chalicotheres are usually depicted as thick, slow and sloth-like and not as fast, relatively slim and dangerous as the lions of Delos seem to appear.

Photo:Comparison of the skeleton of chalicotherium with a Naxian “lion” from the Delos Museum. Note that the face of the Naxian lion shown here has been worn down by weathering and age..


We know from articles about dinosaur depictions that scientists and artists are only guessing when they depict dinosaurs how a dinosaur looks just from their fossils alone.

We also remember that last year a scientific journal reported that scientists now believe that due to an error in a formula they have been using that they have overestimated the size of some dinosaurs by as much as 33% to 50%. The size of their bones are known it was the amount of meat the artists were throwing on the bone that is in question. This suggests that certain dinosaurs were depicted as much bulkier animals than they actually were. Could this be true of chalicotherium?

When artists or illustrators depict known animals the variety of the depictions, the form, the poses can be infinite because the real creature can appear in infinite poses and can be seen from infinite angles.

This not the case with unknown creatures. Inevitably, once a depiction of an animal is made (a guess) all other depictions take the shape of the reference depiction (or first few) and there becomes a limited view of the shape of the creature and even the poses that the animal is shown in. This group think about the look of an unknown creature appears to be inevitable. A radical departure from the consensus view of the creature won’t even be recognized as a depiction of said creature. Ironically an ancient depiction by an eyewitness to the living creature might be rejected because it does not look like the modern, consensus depiction.

Chalicotherium has three toes on each foot ending in claws. Still, the front and back feet are completely different from each other which may provide us some ID possibilities. Are there Nandi bear descriptions of three-toed feet? (By the way lions have five toes in front and four on their back feet).

Here is an antique, eyewitness account of an encounter with the Nandi bear:

“…the whole tent rocked; the pole to which Mbwambi was tied flew out and let down the ridge-pole, enveloping me in flapping canvas. At the same moment the most awful howl I have ever heard split the night. The sheer demoniac horror of it froze me still…I heard my pi-dog yelp just once. There was a crashing of branches in the bush, and then thud, thud, thud, of some huge beast making off. But that howl! I have heard half a dozen lions roaring in a stampede-chorus not twenty yards away; I have heard a maddened cow-elephant trumpeting; I have heard a trapped leopard make the silent night miles a rocking agony with screaming, snarling roars. But never have I heard, nor do I wish to hear again, such a howl as that of the chimiset. A trail of red spots on the sand showed where my pi-dog had gone. Beside that trail were huge footprints, four times as big as a man’s, showing the imprint of three huge clawed toes, with trefoil marks like a lion’s pad where the sole of the foot pressed down. But no lion ever boasted such a paw as that of the monster which had made that terrifying spoor.” Karl Shuker’s Blog

The Nandi bear has been described as having five or six toes in various accounts over the last century as well. I believe that Dale Drinnon who has written extensively on the Nandi bear postulates that the six toed account is assumed to have been where the back feet stepped into an existing three-toed front track.

Various descriptions noted that the animal liked to sit back on its haunches, described it as bear-like (hence the name) having large feet and as being brown in color.

Photo: The interesting foot of the Naxian lion from the Delos Museum compared with the interesting rear foot of the chalicotherium.


Regarding the lions of Delos again; it can be clearly seen from the less damaged statues inside the museum that the lions have three toes on the front feet and very long rear feet, also with three long claws. This superficially at least matches the front feet and rear feet of chalicotherium.

We’ve shown here additional photographs comparing the feet of chalicotherium with those on the Delos lions-both front and rear as well as a number of photographs comparing the physiology, including the long front legs and sloping back.

Photo:A comparison of the three clawed front foot of chalicotherium with the front feet of the Delos, Naxian Lion.


I’ve gone back to look at the actual chalicotherium skeleton to see if a depiction of the living creature as long, slim bodied with a sloping back would also have been a realistic way to depict the creature notwithstanding all the thousands of versions of fat chalicos.

I’ve concluded that the skeleton does lend itself to the Delos, Terrace of Lions, chalicotherium which has closely matching front and back feet, the long front legs and the sloping back of the fossil chalicotherium. (See my admittedly unscientific juxtapostion photo above left.) Even the long hair (mane) of the statues fails to accurately depict the mane of a lion and does remind me of the long hair on certain sloths.

It appears that there is reason to connect the chalicotherium; a creature that supposedly became extinct 5-7 million years ago to the Naxian Lions at Delos. There appears to be some evidence that there is a connection between the Nandi bear of Kenya and Central Africa and the chalicotherium. The elongated bodies of the Naxian lions could be a match for the elongated bodies, and unusual feet of the chalicotherium which could aide in an affirmative identification and prove that chalicotherium was a “late survivor” and could even still be alive.

One More Mystery; Are They Telling the Truth About this Great Monument-or are They Still Lion? Filters On?


Sigiriya (Lion’s rock) Sri Lnkan Mega Site

“In 1831 Major Jonathan Forbes of the 78th Highlanders of the British army, while returning on horseback from a trip to Pollonnuruwa, came across the “bush covered summit of Sigiriya”. Sigiriya came to the attention of antiquarians and, later, archaeologists. Archaeological work at Sigiriya began on a small scale in the 1890s. H.C.P. Bell was the first archaeologist to conduct extensive research on Sigiriya. The Cultural Triangle Project, launched by the Government of Sri Lanka, focused its attention on Sigiriya in 1982. Archaeological work began on the entire city for the first time under this project. There was a sculpted lion’s head above the legs and paws flanking the entrance, but the head broke down many years ago”….Wikipedia
Sigiriya consists of an ancient castle built by King Kasiappan during the 5th century. The Sigiriya site has the remains of an upper palace sited on the flat top of the rock, a mid-level terrace that includes the Lion Gate and the mirror wall with its frescoes, the lower palace that clings to the slopes below the rock, and the moats, walls, and gardens that extend for some hundreds of metres out from the base of the rock.

The site is both a palace and a fortress. Despite its age, the splendor of the palace still furnishes a stunning insight into the ingenuity and creativity of its builders. The upper palace on the top of the rock includes cisterns cut into the rock that still retain water. The moats and walls that surround the lower palace are still exquisitely beautiful.

During Kassapa’s reign in the 5th century AD, a massive, 60-foot lion was chiseled out of the rock. The steps which continued up to the royal palace started at the lion’s feet, wrapped around his body and eventually entered his mouth. Today, all that remain are the paws, but they give a good idea of the statue’s scale. It’s hard to appreciate how impressive it must have been 1500 years ago. It would be impressive now.

The final flight of stairs, hugging tightly to the stone wall, is not for those who suffer from vertigo…Great Photos as the site of srilanka for 91days.com

Here is the mystery; the lion’s head has fallen down and that years ago. One of the most famous parts of the entire sight is the gigantic “lion’s Paws that begin the assent to the next level. But the paws rendered in great detail, are of a creature with three claws on each foot. Lions have five total claws on each front foot although one claw is a “thumb” that usually does not show in a foot print.


So, did someone take the time and input the engineering to construct a megalithic structure featuring a lion only to get the detail concerning the number of claws wrong? I’m even more amazed that no one seems to be questioning whether or not these are meant to be lion’s paws. People seem content just to accept the ID and to move on to the other incredible features of the site.

At least cryptozoologists ought to be asking about the three-clawed lion–if not biologists.

Seriously, is it even reasonable to suppose that the people who built this great monument intended it to represent a three toed lion? Even beyond the number of claws, go google lion claws, view the images and you will note that notwithstanding the actual number of claws–they are nothing like the claws of a lion. What creature, perhaps lion-like in demeanor could be confused with a depiction of a lion- and have three sharp claws on its front feet?

Well, certain dinosaurs might fit the bill–and of course there is the Naxian lion come chalicotherium….

–Comments to: s8intcom@comcast.net

Update: The Biggest Out of Place Artifacts Ever? Immense, Stupendous Petrified Trees of the Black Hills, South Dakota

Giants in Those Days, s8int.com, Science, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Nov 23 2012



Photo: Portion of gigantic petrified tree laying horizontally on the ground. Here we could be looking at a stump or a branch with a circumference of 130 to 150 feet. Black Hills, South Dakota. Photo Copyright Joseph C. Bennett. All Rights reserved.

Gen 7:17 “The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits. Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.”

……..”this isn’t “rocket science”. Any self respecting boy scout can identify petrified wood.” www.beholdgiants.com

We first met Joseph C. Bennett almost three years ago, online when he forwarded some incredible photographs and made some incredible comments to go along with the photos. Joseph Bennett was the discoverer of a phenomenon that if true would require a radical re-examination and realization by science of the true history of this planet.

Photo: Right. Colossal trees neccessarily must have colossal seeds/pits, right? Mr. Bennett proposes that this is such a photo of a gigantic, petrified seed or pit at the Black Hills site. Photo by and Copyright Joseph C. Bennett. All rights reserved. Do not duplicate.

This post isn’t so much as an update as a restating of the original discovery and an opportunity to restore links to photographs.

Also, Joseph has made a video providing significant details of the discovery in terms of his explanation for the gigantic artifacts that he is diplaying pictorially. Joseph’s original site is no longer up, but if you are on facebook you can see approximately 140 pictures that he has located there.


Unfortunately, the detailed descriptions and explanations that were on the main site are no longer there.

Bennett is working on enhancing the material and promises to come back on line with a new site and with the new material that he has gathered over the years.

Our original short post on this topic is still one of the most popular posts on the site. In short, the discovery is this:



“An entire island, 50 x 100 miles, completely petrified. Covered with the petrified remains of a forest of super giants. Trees of incredible/impossible size, destroyed by a cataclysm that collapsed the island itself into the surrounding sea.

Having remained secret for all time. Now, this place has decided to make itself known. Here is just the beginning of an astounding photographic documentation of this petrified island. A little glimpse of an entirely unknown condition upon the Earth. Giants indeed.” Joseph C. Bennett www.beholdgiants.com

Photo:The bark on this stump or branch can be seen on the upper right of this photo. Black Hills, South Dakota. Photo Copyright Joseph C. Bennett. All Rights reserved



Bennett believes that he has discovered a gigantic, petrified forest of mind blowing dimensions in the Black Hills of South Dakota. If these artifacts are what they appear to be to the discerning an open minded eye; the remnants of forest of gigantic trees; where did they come from? In the history of the planet, at what time would an island of giant trees like this have existed?

Science has its own ideas about the many petrified forests (smaller trees) that have been discovered around the world;

“A petrified forest is a forest made out of fossil or petrified wood. In other words, a petrified forest is a forest made out of stone trees. Petrification is a natural process that occurs when all organic material in a tree dies and is replaced by a combination of quartz, copper, iron, and other minerals. Once the process has been finalized, petrified wood is no longer considered wood, and it becomes classified as a stone. In fact, petrified wood is Washington’s official stone. All petrified forests are national monuments and are carefully protected.

A petrified forest becomes such over the course of million of years. Some of the world’s largest petrified forests are an estimated 100 million years old” Wisegeek.

The Bible of course provides another version of history; that the whole earth was at one time covered in water above the mountains in a global flood less than 10,000 years ago. In 2011, what is being called the world’s largest tree was discovered in Redwood National Park in California. The tree named Hyperion reaches a height of 379 feet.

Scientists recently concluded that the maximum height of a tree is 425 feet under current gravimetric conditions. So how does one account for trees in the past of such huge size as to be impossible to imagine–up to 1/2 mile in circumference (distance walking around it)–and larger? For instance, a 900 foot petrified tree found in Texas in 1927 had “upright trunks are so large that they appear from a distance to be great symmetrical columns of natural rock.” A 900 foot tree should not have been possible under the current gravity of the earth–but Bennett claims evidence of trees much larger even than this. Perhaps the trees were as large as this in the Garden of Eden?


….”When you get to the top of one particular ridge, overlooking a long meadow to the south and a larger valley to the southeast, you see a vast landscape, littered everywhere with large petrified tree sections similar to the ones you have seen so far. Then when you look out a little further, you notice right away that things get a lot bigger and you realize that everything else you have seen is most certainly smaller giant trees and branches of much larger giant trees.

Wow. Time to burn some brain calories. First, is this for real?”..www.beholdgiants.com
Photo above: In the foreground; Mount Rushmore. In the background; gigantic broken off tree stumps?

Joseph Bennett made these discoveries while hiking in the Black Hills of South Dakota himself. As he says, these artifacts aren’t going to go away. Anyone with the time, a little knowledge and the inclination can verify these discoveries-and their implications themselves.


We don’t have the ability to understand the satellite maps in the same way that Mr.Bennett sees them. We are on board with the notion that he has a number of photographs proving that there are gigantic, petrified trees there at the site (the smaller trees). We think that he has more work to do to prove that the really super big trees which appear to be small mountains are really broken off tree stumps. He promises to come forward in the future with some additional, mind blowing artifacts.

The facebook site of a number of these photographs is:Black Hills Petrified Giants

Video Link to BeholdGiants.com

All photos Copyright Joseph C. Bennett
Hey Chris,
Spot the giant log?

Joseph C. Bennett


  

Following is an additional, large scale view of the location with several huge stumps described.

Click the photo to see a higher resolution version.


Ancient South American Tri Cryptozoological Mystery: De Loys’ Ape, Mono Grande (Great Ape) or Bigfoot from 1500 B.C.?

Church of Darwin, Crypto, s8int.com, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Nov 08 2012


By Chris Parker

A story about Bigfoot seems a bit far afield for one who spends a great amount of time looking for evidence that men and dinosaurs lived together as indicated by a copious amount of ancient art. It’s not a typical topic of a Christian poster (although Ken Griffith, my webmaster is into it).

I’m a bit ambivalent about bigfoot.

How should a Christian feel about the possible discovery of another primate out there in the world that seems very close to man? About the same as he should have felt about the mythological gorilla that wasn’t scientifically discovered until 1847 and the even larger, mythological mountain gorillas of equatorial Africa that weren’t discovered until 1901.

Now, did evolutionists suggest that the gorilla was another link in the evolutionary chain to man? Sure they did. However, the quoted 95% to 99% similarity to man quoted for chimps and gorillas only relates to the 2% of DNA that codes for protein. The other 98% of DNA which has now found to be functional and not junk bears no resemblance to the DNA of man. In short, should bigfoot prove to exist, he will simply be another animal that God has placed under the dominion of man.

Officially and according to science there never were “great apes” in South America—now or in the ancient past. However, there have been a number of reported sightings of large apelike creatures over the years.

Mono Grande, The De Loys Ape (Ameranthropoides loysi) and other Alleged South American Sightings-from Wikipedia

Photo:Right: De Loy’s Ape

“The Mono Grande (Spanish for “Large Monkey”), a large monkey-like creature, has been occasionally reported in South America. Such creatures are reported as being much larger than the commonly accepted new world monkeys.

These accounts have received rather little publicity, and typically generated little or no interest from mainstream experts, but have received some notice in cryptozoology.

Older Sightings Perhaps the first formal record of such creatures called “marimondas” or “maribundas” comes from 1533, when Pedro Cieza de León reported sightings from natives and from one Spanish settler. In his writings, Sir Walter Raleigh made brief note of reports of large monkey-like creatures in South America. He did not see such a creature himself, but deemed them credible, noting the ubiquity and consistency of reports.

The German naturalist Alexander von Humboldt, who travelled in South America during early 19th century, heard stories from Orinoco about furry human-like creatures called Salvaje (“Wild”),

Modern reports and Sightings The so-called Loys’ Ape was photographed in 1920; but critics of the photograph allege that it was simply a spider monkey, while others believe it could be an unknown creature.

In 1931, inspired by Loys’ ape, three Italians made an expedition to the Mazaruni River in Guyana, but without further evidence than more alleged sightings from the residents. Bengt Sjögren writes (1980) that: “They returned home with a couple of eyewitness-reports, that give the impression that the interviewer tried to make fun of them.

An American millionaire also set up a reward of 50,000 dollars to the one who could find a specimen, but nobody seems to have claimed the reward. The American scientist Philip Herschkowitz, who traveled in the same areas as de Loys, concluded that the story was a myth whose origin was the spider monkey, Ateles belzebuth.

However, in 1951, a Frenchman named Roger Courteville claimed to have seen an apeman at the same river (Tarra[disambiguation needed]) where de Loys said he had seen his creatures. Like de Loys, he presented a photograph of the creature as evidence. According to Sjögren (1980) the photo was a hoax, a manipulated version of de Loys photograph.”

The Crux of the Matter: An “Abstract” Ancient Sculpture which could Depict Mono Grande, De Loys’ Ape, Bigfoot or Some Combination of All Three?
This artifact is from the Alamito Culture of Northern Argentina which flourished there between 400 B.C. and 700 A.D. according to the experts.


The Alamito culture was closely related to the Condorhuasi culture in the province of Catamarca. They were llama shepherds who created some very modern looking anthropomorphic scultpture/pottery figurines now known as “supplicants”… Source LandofWinds-Blog..

The specific description of this particular piece from the Museo Nacional de Belle Artes which moves the date back as far as 1,500 B.C. follows: Source: Museovivos.educ

Anthropomorphic Figure-1500 B.C. to 300 A.D.


Since 2005, the NMFA has a room dedicated to the works of native peoples who inhabited the present territory part of Peru and northwestern Mexico, before the arrival of the Spanish.

Images like this anthropomorphic figure may have been part of ritual practices linked to ancestor worship. They were called “pleading” an arbitrary designation based on the attitude of the human figures represented, and are one of the most original of these cultures.

(Photo:Left to Right:Gorilla, abstract sculpture as much as 3,500 years old and the Patterson bigfoot.)


From the formal point of view, are characterized by the way they represent synthetically members: arms and legs are unified by involving space curves. Thus, the gaze travels voids polished interacting with matter. Perhaps it was this stylization and this game spaces which aroused the admiration twentieth century artists expressed by these figures.

This piece belongs to Alamito culture, a people who inhabited the province of Catamarca”…translated

So, De Loy’s ape, Mono Grande, bigfoot, or neither? With those shoulders and that visage I suppose it does represent something like one of the above. None of the above was supposed to have been around to serve as a model for an ancient tribe in Northern, Argentina.

I’m ambivalent but here is another version of an ancient, “South American Mono Grande/Saquatch/Yeti/Bigfoot.

Pueblo Peoples Ancient Dinosaur Petroglyph Photographed in New Mexico?

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Oct 24 2012


A few days ago I received a note from Jeremy Springfield who was in New Mexico on a kind of archaeological mission when he came across an apparently “ancient” petroglyph of a long necked dinosaur. His note follows but I was curious as to whether or not the fossils of long necked sauropods or similar dinosaurs had been found in New Mexico.

As it turns out New Mexico is one of the geographical areas in the U.S. where the highest number and diversity of dinosaur fossils is found, no doubt due to the desert like climate and lack of anything else to do but to dig. Sauropod fossils including some of the largest ever found have been discovered in New Mexico.

Coincidentally perhaps, one of the first images I came across with respect to New Mexico Dimosaurs was a depiction on the New Museum of Natural History and Science’s website depicting seismosaurus- in a pose that looks quite similar to the petroglyph. That comparison is shown below within Jeremy’s note-but first a bit on sauropods in New Mexico…. s8int.com

From About.com

“Any state with as many dinosaur fossils as New Mexico is sure to yield the remains of at least a few sauropods (giant, long-necked, elephant-legged plant eaters). Diplodocus and Camarasaurus were first identified elsewhere in the U.S., but the first specimen of the 30-ton Alamosaurus was discovered in New Mexico and named after this state’s Ojo Alamo formation.”

From New Mexico Museum of Natural History

New Mexico Super Giants – part of Dinosaur Century only at the New Mexico Museum of Natural History & Science

ALBUQUERQUE, NM – April 12, 2012 -In the small village of San Ysidro, near Cuba, NM, one of the longest dinosaurs that ever walked the Earth was discovered. His name is Camarasaurus, he measures 55 feet long and is April’s featured dinosaur as part of the New Mexico Museum of Natural History & Science Dinosaur Century Exhibit.

THE DISCOVERIES:

1979—Seismosaurus discovered

In 1979, Arthur Loy and Jan Cummings were hiking in the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) area called the Ojito, northwest of Albuquerque. Loy spotted the large bones first and casually called to his friend, “Come see what you make of this.” Cummings recalls the event: “I instantly recognized from thirty feet the obvious vertebrae of a large dinosaur. The articulated vertebral column looked like a huge chicken neck laying half in and half out of sandstone.”

For fear of the precious fossils being vandalized, Cummings and Loy kept their find secret, only sharing it with a small group of friends. In 1985, with increased recreational activity in the Ojito, they reported their awesome find to the BLM and the newly-established New Mexico Museum of Natural History. Excavation by a Museum crew led by then Curator of Paleontology David Gillette uncovered the partial skeleton of a huge new sauropod, later named Seismosaurus (“[earth]-shaking lizard”), one of the longest dinosaurs in the world, with a full body length of 110 feet.’

Possible Pueblo Culture Dinosaur Petroglyph Photographed in New Mexico Copy Right 2012 by Jeremy Springfield



Photo: Jeremy Springfield’s cropped photo compared with drawing of Seismosauras from New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science

On a trip to Hidden Mountain, just outside of Los Lunas, New Mexico, on October 20th, 2012, I took pictures of what is possibly a dinosaur figure petroglyph. This is found on a mesa about 16 miles west of Los Lunas, and requires more than a mile’s hike just to reach the foot of the mesa. The mesa contains scattered Native American art, contemporary defacements from the rare inconsiderate visitors, as well as evidence of ancient Hebrew visitation (definitely non-Mormon, FYI), and ancient scattered ruins / shelters on the summit.

The attached photos were taken on the south-facing ridge of the mesa’s summit, about 20 feet down from the ridge itself. The stone itself is quite protected from defacements and contemporary “tags” due to its difficult to reach location, which is only accessible by a perilous ledge some 14 inches wide that drops to a steep and deadly slope to the foothills some 400+ feet below.

I went for a day’s trip to photograph and film the area due to the ancient Hebrew decalogue stone that is on the mesa, and an apparant “star chart” dating to B.C. that is also found on the northern face of the summit. I was not expecting to see anything saurian in nature by way of petraglyphs.

I do not know if that is indeed the case, but please consider the animal depicted to the left of the saurian-like creature.

It definitely does not look saurian in nature, providing a great contrast. On a stone just to the right of the one with the saurian-like image is found the very deer-like animal — which was the reason for my initial decision to brave the very dangerous ledge to photograph it. I could not see the saurian image from my original vantage point, so I was surprised when I got out to the deer-image and looked to the left.

This is near the Isleta Indian Reservation, home of the Tewa Indians. I have no idea if they have any art or mythology concerning any creatures that could be considered saurian in nature.

Anyhow, I present these to you for consideration. Thanks for your time and may your efforts to promote the truth find favor with God and man. Jeremy Springfield Oct. 23, 2012

Other Native American Dinosaur Petroglyphs

Thanks Jeremy for sending that along to us. Very Interesting! of course we have had quite a number of prior posts indicating that the indigenous people of the Americas were familair with dinosaurs including:

Did Ancient Americans Ride the Parasaurolophus Dinosaur or Did They Just Exaggerate the Size of Their Sheep? featuring a petroglyph from the
Annual report of the Bureau of American Ethnology to the secretary…..1886.

this petroglyph clearly shows the ancient men riding the backs of huge animals and the glyph apparently includes a ladder for the purposes of climbing aboard.

Hey Loren Coleman, World Famous Cryptozoologist; Can You Hear Me Now!?

Church of Darwin, Crypto, s8int.com, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Oct 14 2012


Photo: Material for a later post; African, out of place and time art depicts pterosaurs and ceratopsians? Maybe eyewitnesses are still seeing some of these creatures over America and around the world. Note the keeled sternums on the pterosaurs.
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By Chris Parker

As usual it seems, I’m working on story about the historical proofs in ancient art that pterosaurs ruled ancient skies-and still do. I was looking for that Jonathan Whitcomb quote about his estimate of the number of modern eyewitness accounts of pterosaur sightings in the U.S. (1,400). Jonathan Whitcomb is the author of “Live Pterosaurs in America” and several other books on the subject of living pterosaurs.

Apparently Mr. Whitcomb’s estimate and the fact that Mr. Whitcomb is a creationist raised Loren Coleman’s ire. In a blog post entitled “Creationist Imagines Pterosaurs Soaring Over America”. Mr. Coleman takes aim at the mere notion that living pterosaurs still exist. He ties the whole thing to evolution and makes the claim that in calling himself a “cryptozoologist” Mr. Whitcomb is hiding the fact that he is actually a creationist.

Apparently the very tony science of cryptozoology is careful about its membership. But hasn’t Mr. Coleman ever considered why he always sits alone at those scientific conferences?

I confess that I’m always a bit nonplussed that the main function of sites like CryptoMundo is apparently to debunk cryptozoological sightings? Probably most of these types of things are ripe for debunking but you’d think the one place that alleged pterosaur sightings would get a hearing is on sites like Cryptomundo.com.

Has Mr. Coleman never investigated such accounts himself or has he as the world’s foremost cryptozoologist decided not investigate such silly claims while going out on investigations of bigfoot and the giant, bushy tailed, giant monkeys he researched in Albany, Kentucky in 1973?

Mr. Coleman wrote:

“According to Whitcomb, a substantial number are not from hoaxes, insanity, or misidentifications; they are most likely living pterosaurs,” says their press release.

Wherein lies the insanity here?

Cryptozoology used in the support of extreme, unsupportable theories of creationism is unscientific and, perhaps, worse.”

Ah, it’s the creationist part that bothers Mr. Coleman–surely it’s not the extraordinary claims?

My Own Special Encounter with Mr. Coleman, World Famous Cryptozoologist

This entire post is actually not about pterosaurs at all but about my Sherlock Holmes like identification of Monckton’s Gazeka.


Back in 2009 I wrote a “brilliant” post about the s8int.com identification of Monckton’s Gazeka, a problem/musytery that had mystified/intrigued zoologists, paleontologist and cryptozoologists since 1910 (Even Christian cryptozoologists).

See back in 1910 the Stephens Point, Wisconsin Gazette published a syndicated story about a giant, prehistoric appearing creature in the “wilds of New Guinea”.

According to the article, a prehistoric monster much larger than an elephant had been discovered and encountered not by common folks like me and you, but by scientists.

In addition, to the giant monster,the scientists had come across a “marvelous race of pigmies” who averaged just over four feet in height.

According to the article; the expedition was sent out by a committee appointed by the British Ornithologist’s union to explore the great Snow mountains in Dutch New Guinea, and consists of several famous scientists, headed by Walter Goodfellow, the naturalist.”

“According to the official reports, the Gazeka is of gigantic size and fearsome aspect. It is black and white striped, has the nose of a tapir and “a face like the devil.”

Among the English inhabitants of the island, the animal is known as Monckton’s Gazeka, in honor of Mr. C. A. W. Monckton, a former explorer In New Guinea, who first reported its presence in the mountains.

Mr. Monckton, during his ascent of Mount Albert Edward, in the west of British New Guinea, discovered the huge footprints and other indications of the very recent presence of some tremendous monster that had evidently been prowling on the grassy plains surrounding the lakes on the summit at an elevation of about 12,500 feet.

He followed the trail all day, and came upon the monster at dusk, just as it was devastating a settlement of the pigmies.

The little natives were screaming and running for their lives, although they turned every now and again to aim their poisoned arrows at the brute.

Monckton let fire as soon as he was able to get in a proper position, and the huge Gazeka at once turned upon him. As it reared upon its hind legs and pawed the air it looked to the hunter as big as a house, standing fully 25 feet high.

Two of Monckton’s bullets seemed to take effect, as a stream of blood flowed freely from the animal’s shoulder, but before Monckton was able to reload the animal turned and fled. By that time it was too dark to follow him, and Monckton never had another opportunity to renew his pursuit.”

Since 1910 many have speculated as to the identity of the creature that is now known as Monckton’s Gazeka. My post was written back in 2009 because the 1910 Newspaper article had published a photo showing the giant footprint of Monckton’s Gazeka, along with a photo of one of the pygmies in order to provide some idea of the size of the “Gazeka” print. No doubt, the scientists who took the picture hoped that some time in the future the huge footprint could be identified.


In 2009, we came across a picture of a footprint of diprotodon, published in 2009, some 99 years after the Stevens Point Gazette article. That picture was printed in among other places the “Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology”, September 2009 titled:

Diprotodontid Footprints from the Pliocene of Central Australia”, Page 867

The footprint picture from 2009 matched the footprint picture of Monckton’s Gazeka-then a mystery creature printed in a newspaper 99 years ago.

Someone was suitably impressed and forwarded a link to my article to Cryptomundo.

It was then that I heard from Mr. Coleman, world’s foremost cryptozoologist and keeper of the faith-I thought perhaps to congratulate me cryptozoologist to crypto-zoo-archaeologist.

He wrote:

I may move this to a new posting, but I don’t understand how this is anything more than a circular argument? Doesn’t this merely increase the level of speculation but ends up back where this material lead before, to theorized dino alive in PNG?

I don’t see how anything is “positively identified.” Are you one of the authors of this examination?

Am I missing something here?

Thank you

Loren Coleman

Well, yes Loren, you are “missing something”. It’s because I’m a Christian/creationist isn’t it? This is the kind of thing cryptozoologists are supposed to get excited about. If it helps Gazeka has a big foot?

See Loren, one picture is from 1910. It is a picture of a foot print of a mystery creature then dubbed “Monckton’s Gazeka”. They didn’t know what the creature actually was (but some scientists speculated that it was Diprototon) but scientists at that time collected photographs for future study and identification. (The caption under the photo of the Pygmy and print is actually: Enormous foot of Gazeka “reconstructed” from recent tracks.)

Then, 99 years later, scientists printed an apparently unrelated photo of diprotodon in a Journal. Now, I believe that I have found a striking similarity between the 1910 mystery footprint -photo/reconstruction of the recent tracks- and the 2009 Journal of Vetebrate Paleontology photo of diprotodon’s pes–the back footprint. (In the photo above right, the footprint labeled “C” is from the Journal in 2009–the photos of the Pygmy and the footprint on the right of the picture are from the 1910 newspaper article).

So, Mr. Coleman do you hear me now? Do you see how that’s not circular? Circular would be dating rocks by the fossils embedded and then dating the fossils by the type of rock or saying that survival of the fittest is where the fittest creatures survive.

Encode Project Proves that Materialists Had Gotten Ignorance Down to a Science; Junk DNA is No More!

Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Science, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Oct 05 2012


By Chris Parker Copyright 2012

The National Human Genome Research Institute (NHGRI) launched a public research consortium named ENCODE, the Encyclopedia Of DNA Elements, in September 2003, to carry out a project to identify all functional elements in the human genome sequence. Recently they announced some science shaking results.

Back Story

“Ignorance is bliss” the saying goes and many who promote or adhere to today’s scientific paradigms are in the position to best report whether or not this saying is true. I’m not using the word “ignorance” in a pejorative sense but rather in the sense of Webster’s “a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge).

Finding oneself in the state of being uninformed is common to most of us in some aspects of our lives but deciding to build up an area of science or to make scientific assertions built upon the foundation of one’s own ignorance is a mistake that’s likely to be made manifest once that ignorance is dispelled with a bit of the light of actual knowledge.

As an example, for years scientists did not know what the function was for a number of organs or structures in the human body. They could have said “we do not know what the function of this particular organ or part in the body is”. What they did instead was to build on the evolution myth by tying their ignorance about the human body into “scientific knowledge” claiming that these “vestigial organs or structures” were leftovers from the evolutionary past-which had lost their functions. Eventually, other scientists were able to discover important functions for each of these “vestigial” organs and today, arguably, none exist.

Materialists and strict evolutionists believe that there is only matter and energy in the universe and that somehow that matter and energy was able to organize itself into planets, comets, stars and life. They don’t believe in spirit, such as the souls of man or in God who is Spirit because such can’t be scientifically quantified. There is however another sphere that exists apart from matter and energy that even the materialists have to admit is real. This sphere is called information.

Information exists and in fact is the basis of life itself. Information is non-material and exists apart from any method or material used to convey it. Information exists in copious amounts in the cells of everything living. This information, DNA, is a language which the living cell can read, understand and “obey”. This information provides the instructions for every facet of life.

“The information in DNA is stored as a code made up of four chemical bases: adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C), and thymine (T). Human DNA consists of about 3 billion bases, and more than 99 percent of those bases are the same in all people. The order, or sequence, of these bases determines the information available for building and maintaining an organism, similar to the way in which letters of the alphabet appear in a certain order to form words and sentences.”..NIH

Information and language come from a mind; it comes from intelligence. DNA is such a language.

The “technology” conveyed through the language DNA is infinitely above any technology of mankind. The fact that this information could have only come from a superior intelligence should be obvious; whoever placed the language in the cells of everything living first had to have stupendous and incredible knowledge in order to implant it into all life.

If materialists and evolutionists gave themselves a moment to reflect they would realize that DNA is proof that God exists and so they refuse to reflect-and instead apparently spend their time trying to create counter arguments to the obvious.

Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft said :

“DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created.”
Bill Gates, The Road Ahead .

All of Gates far less complicated software codes had creators.

Anyone who was honestly considering whether or not God exists had no alternative but to consider DNA absolute proof of a Creator. The smallest cell of bacteria living requires to much information to have been formed by chance and that information is on a level well above anything man has concieved or built.

As I.L. Cohen, Mathematician and researcher said:

“At that moment, when the DNA/RNA system became understood, the debate between Evolutionists and Creationists should have come to a screeching halt”……. I.L. Cohen, Researcher and Mathematician; Member NY Academy of Sciences; Officer of the Archaeological Inst. of America; “Darwin Was Wrong – A Study in Probabilities”; New Research Publications, 1984, p. 4

There is a small portion of the human genome that codes for proteins—around 2%. This area has been a central focus on gene studies. The function of the larger portion of the genome that does not code for protein has been a mystery. Materialists seized upon areas of the genome that were not as well understood and declared these areas “junk dna”. Being ignorant of the function of these areas, they argued that they were evolutionary junk, left over from eons of evolutionary activity.

Francis Collins, at one time the Director of the Human Genome Project said the following regarding materialist scientists using their own scientific ignorance as a basis for building on the current paradigm in science:

“There were long stretches of DNA in between genes that didn’t seem to be doing very much; some even referred to these as “junk DNA,” though a certain amount of hubris was required for anyone to call any part of the genome “junk,” given our level of ignorance.”
Francis S. Collins, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief

Naturally, Materialists Ignored Collins’ Hubris Warnings and Those of Creationists

The term “Junk DNA” coined by Susumu Ohnoover 40 years ago is quite obviously a pejorative term intended to suggest lack of design and thus; lack of a Designer-God. A typical evolutionist challenge to creationists have typically gone something like this:

“Anti-evolutionists: can you explain why God would make “junk” DNA?

A good portion of our genetic code has no apparent purpose … that is until you account for millions if not billions of mutations that no longer have a phenotype in modern humans.”…Evolutionist, Anonymous

Richard Dawkins, the world’s preeminent Atheist said the following with unconcealed sarcasm:


“Once again, creationists might spend some earnest time speculating on why the Creator should bother to litter genomes with untranslated pseudogenes and junk tandem repeat DNA.” (Dawkins: The Information Challenge)

…it is a remarkable fact that the greater part (95 percent in the case of humans) of the genome might as well not be there, for all the difference it makes.* The Greatest Show on Earth”

Although Encode wasn’t about “pseudogenes” there is increasing evidence that they have until now undiscovered function as well; Dawkins double downed and tripled down with this quote from “The Greatest Show on Earth”

“What pseudogenes are useful for is embarrassing creationists. It stretches even their creative ingenuity to make a convincing reason why an intelligent designer should have created a pseudogene — a gene that does absolutely nothing and gives every appearance of being a superannuated version of a gene that used to do something — unless he was deliberately setting out to fool us.”

Dawkins Was Wrong: The Encode Findings

ENCODE Project Writes Eulogy for Junk DNA, ScienceMag.org–September 2012 by Elizabeth Pennisi

“This week, 30 research papers, including six in Nature and additional papers published online by Science, sound the death knell for the idea that our DNA is mostly littered with useless bases. A decade-long project, the Encyclopedia of DNA Elements (ENCODE), has found that 80% of the human genome serves some purpose, biochemically speaking. Beyond defining proteins, the DNA bases highlighted by ENCODE specify landing spots for proteins that influence gene activity, strands of RNA with myriad roles, or simply places where chemical modifications serve to silence stretches of our chromosomes”

Breakthrough Study Overturns Theory of ‘Junk DNA’ in Genome-Guardian UK

“Long stretches of DNA previously dismissed as “junk” are in fact crucial to the way our genome works, an international team of researchers said on Wednesday……

For years, the vast stretches of DNA between our 20,000 or so protein-coding genes – more than 98% of the genetic sequence inside each of our cells – was written off as “junk” DNA. Already falling out of favour in recent years, this concept will now, with Encode’s work, be consigned to the history books”

Junk DNA, In the Beginning.org
Les Sherlock, Sept 2012

“Well, now it is the evolutionists who are embarrassed – or certainly should be. For 40 years, ever since Susumu Ohno introduced the term in 1972, they have been waving ‘junk DNA’ in the face of creationists, asking why their Creator-God would have produced DNA with only 5% that had any function. Now they know, or are beginning to find out, that it wasn’t that it was without function, but simply that they knew too little about it to be aware of what it did. In fact this mirrors exactly the blunder they made 100 years ago or so, when they claimed over 100 human organs were vestigial: remnants of our evolutionary past that were no longer functional. They were wrong with vestigial organs 100 years ago, and they have been wrong for the past 40 years with junk DNA. Will they never learn?”

Bits of Mystery DNA, Far From ‘Junk,’ Play Crucial Role-The New York Times 9/6/2012
By GINA KOLATA

“Now scientists have discovered a vital clue to unraveling these riddles. The human genome is packed with at least four million gene switches that reside in bits of DNA that once were dismissed as “junk” but that turn out to play critical roles in controlling how cells, organs and other tissues behave. The discovery, considered a major medical and scientific breakthrough, has enormous implications for human health because many complex diseases appear to be caused by tiny changes in hundreds of gene switches.

The findings, which are the fruit of an immense federal project involving 440 scientists from 32 laboratories around the world, will have immediate applications for understanding how alterations in the non-gene parts of DNA contribute to human diseases, which may in turn lead to new drugs. They can also help explain how the environment can affect disease risk. In the case of identical twins, small changes in environmental exposure can slightly alter gene switches, with the result that one twin gets a disease and the other does not.

As scientists delved into the “junk” — parts of the DNA that are not actual genes containing instructions for proteins — they discovered a complex system that controls genes. At least 80 percent of this DNA is active and needed.”

Monkey’s Uncle?

Evolutionists have trumpeted the similarity of the chimpanzee genome to that of humans, claiming that since the chimpanzee DNA profile matched ours up to 98% (debated number) that this was proof of evolution. However, the 98% number related to the 2% of the respective genomes that code for protein.

Given that, the Encode Project findings indicate that the vast majority of the two genomes are totally unrelated. In fact the extreme differences between the two species non coding DNA regions is too large to have occurred in the period alleged to have existed between the supposed evolution of chimps and man.

The Conclusion of it All

William Dembski sums up both the reasons materialists have for designating portions of the genome “junk” and why finding so much function in the genome tends to eliminate the possibility for evolutionary explanations to be correct.

“design is not a science stopper. Indeed, design can foster inquiry where traditional evolutionary approaches obstruct it. Consider the term “junk DNA.” Implicit in this term is the view that because the genome of an organism has been cobbled together through a long, undirected evolutionary process, the genome is a patchwork of which only limited portions are essential to the organism.

Thus on an evolutionary view we expect a lot of useless DNA.

If, on the other hand, organisms are designed, we expect DNA, as much as possible, to exhibit function. And indeed, the most recent findings suggest that designating DNA as “junk” merely cloaks our current lack of knowledge about function”….Dembski 1998

So far, the Encode Project and scientists working in this area have found function for only 80% of the genome.

It would now betray a certain, stubborn, anti scientific ignorance to believe function won’t be found for the entire DNA code-if the world stands.

See Also: Et tu, Pseudogenes? Another Type of “Junk” DNA Betrays Darwinian Predictions

10,000 Individual Centrosaurus Fossils Buried at Dinosaur Park
Were All Ceratopsians Destroyed Except Those on the Ark?

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, The Flood of Noah | Posted by Chris Parker
Aug 20 2012


by Chris Parker, Copyright 2012

“Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered.

The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days”….Genesis 7

       

In a 2001 article in Palaios entitled “The Taphonomy of a Centrosaurus (Omithischia:Certopsidae) Bone Bed from the Dinosaur Park Formation (Upper Campanian), Alberta, Canada, with Comments on Cranial Ontogeny”, authors MICHAEL J. RYAN and ANTHONY P. RUSSELL of the University of Calgary and David Eberth and Philip Currie of the Royal Tyrell Museum of Palaeontology attempt to come to grips with a huge fossil graveyard made up almost entirely of the remains of potentially thousands of Centrosaurus apertus, individuals who apparently died simultaneously as the result of some ancient catastrophe. Centrosaurus was considered a “medium sized” dinosaur with an average size of between 18 to 20 feet (6 meters) bearing a single, large horn over its nose.

In the past science has visited this location in Alberta, in terms of scientists and of scientific studies but much of the prior research about the dinosaur fossils there was centered on how finding these fossil herds informed science about the social behaviors of cerotopsian dinosaurs and dinosaurs in general. In this article, the authors focus more on the taphonomy of the formation and the events leading up to fossil deposition at the site.

Taphonomy is the study of decaying organisms over time and how they become fossilized (if they do). The term taphonomy (from the Greek taphos -meaning burial, and nomos – meaning law) was introduced to paleontology in 1940 by Russian scientist Ivan Efremov to describe the study of the transition of remains, parts, or products of organisms, from the biosphere, to the lithosphere, i.e. the creation of fossil assemblages….Wikipedia

What do the authors surmise happened to these dinosaurs? And, what do they suppose is the most likely way that fossils are created-especially a site where thousands of such fossils created at the same time? Do the authors believe that the huge numbers of fossilized individuals found there died as a result of some catastrophe or that that fossils were accumulated by some means over a long period of time?

Those answers in a moment but I want to mention that as extraordinary as the Dinosaur Park Bone Bed is, it is not the first huge dinosaur graveyard to be discovered on this planet that would cause such questions to be raised. For example there are an estimated 800 billion fossils at the Karoo Supergroup in South Africa. There were so many fossils estimated to be there that many initially “creationists” worried that the estimate might be too high to fit the Genesis flood theory. Now everyone more or less agrees that there are upwards of 800 billion veterbrate fossils buried there.

“Massive fossil graveyards of dinosaurs still exist all over the world. The Morrison beds in North America, the dinosaur beds in Montana, in the Rocky Mountains, in Alberta, the Dakotas, China, Colorado, Utah, Africa, etc., etc., contain literally millions of dinosaur fossils piled together in tremendous heaps. Ten thousand Hadrosaurs were found on Egg Mountain, Monatana alone, jumbled together in what appears to have been a mass death.” Darwin Papers, James Foard

That represents a very short list of the dinosaur and fossil bone beds found around the world. For instance, another bone bed, the Sicilian “hippopotamus beds” are so extensive that they are mined as a source of charcoal.

This is what one might expect if one had read and believed the Genesis account of the great flood but it is more problematic for the science of the current paradigm which favors uniformatism over catastrophism in explaining the history of the planet.

There is yet at least one other issue related to dinosaur and mammalian fossils that scientists are loathe to discuss out there in the public where Bible believers might see it. That is the fact that; dinosaurs died agonizing deaths!

An article in LiveScience, June 2007 provides some details.

“Fossilized dinosaurs often have wide-open mouths, heads thrown back and tails that curve toward the head. Paleontologists have long assumed the dinosaurs died in water and the currents drifted the bones into that position, or that rigor mortis or drying muscles, tendons and ligaments contorted the limbs.”

Asphyxiation is the cause claims a veterinarian who studied many of the fossils. Of course, asphyxiation is consistent with drowning.

Conclusions reached in the lead article regarding the taphonomy of the Alberta, Canada Dinosaur Park Formation:

Cause of death: The bone bed is dominated by the disarticulated, mostly fragmentary and slightly abraded remains of Centrosaurus apertus, with minor occurrences of other taxa, notably teeth from the large tyrannosaurid Albertosaurus libratus. Fossils occur in a stacked to amalgamated succession of lag deposits, deposited and reworked at the erosional base of a paleochannel. The most parsomonious scenario suggests that Centrosaurus material represents part of a large aggregation of animals (possibly numbering in the thousands) that died by drowning on the alluvial plain.

Catastrophy or Fossils Deposited Over Time: “This site may represent an upriver accumulation of the same centrosaur material in BB 43. If these two sites are part of the same bone bed then the original number of dead centrosaurs may have numbered in the tens of thousands. The data presented in this study support a catastrophic death for the original Centrosaurus assemblage. The low diversity assemblage with an almost uniform taphonomic signature suggests that a large group of one species was killed in one place at the same time, then disarticulated and transported to their final resting place very quickly, probably in under a few years.”

Most Likely Cause of Fossillization of Entire Herd: “Kurten (1952) points out that while mass deaths do occur, they are fairly rare. Behrensmeyer (1975) suggests that it is the exception (drowning) that usually produces a fossil, while “normal” life habits leave little or no fossil evidence. Given the rarity of fossilization, it would seem like ly that the record of a mass death would best be preserved if it was tied to a specific instance that increased the chances of fossilization, such as in a mass death by drowning.”

The Bible is not a “scientific” book. When Christians endeavor to explain biblical events scientifically, we leave the inerrancy of the Bible and in many ways become subject to the same errors as secular scientists who try to explain the history of this planet scientifically.

What we can say is that given our belief in a worldwide flood exactly as described in Genesis, the fact that huge fossil bone beds have been discovered around the world, and given the unique way fossils are formed (in water) and acknowledging the further fact that many of these animals died of asphyxiation we believe that the Genesis account of a great, worldwide flood is strongly supported by the data.

Amen.

See Also crypto-zoo-archaeological mysteries challenge conventional histories; the ceratopsian dinosaur and the elephant in ancient South-America