âAnd the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water; in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.â
“No Your Dinosaurs! Who Knows for Certain What Dinosaurs Actually Looked Like? Nobody! Except Perhaps the Eyewitnesses Responsible for the Ancient Dinosaur Art at the Peabody”. by Chris Parker, s8int.com
Before you vote; See the follow up to this article Holding On to the Faith of Darwin Though the Hand of Godâs Dinosaurs Be Upon Thee
In the movie; âThe Princess Brideâ an important character, Inigo has a conversation with the man in black during a sword fight and that conversation has become a trope in television and movies (convention or device used in creative works). The conversation goes something like this:
Inigo: âI admit it: you are better than I am!â
Man in Black: âThen why are you smiling?â
Inigo: âBecause I know something you don’t know.â
Man in Black: âAnd what is that?â
Inigo: âI AM NOT LEFT HANDEDâ [Switches the sword to his right hand and starts driving him back]
I sometimes have the feeling that I am in Inigoâs position when I find myself in a conversation with someone about man and dinosaurs living at the same time.
âYou believe that man and dinosaurs lived together at the same time within the last 10,000 years theyâll say incredulouslyâ? Or perhaps theyâll say it sneeringly, or contemptuously or in some rare cases even sadly or compassionately.
They are quite certain that they have the upper hand, the science, the good sense, the pure knowledge the unmitigated certainty. They slap their foreheads. They roll their eyes. All that. They believe that they are winning this âfightâ-discussion-debate because-come on! They may even be fellow believers.
Theyâre thinking that I have set science aside for some kind of blind faith belief in what science has said is impossible-for the sake of the Bible. Theyâre thinking Iâm living in some anti-science anti-evidence bubble. However, as a Christian I have choices. I could believe as some Christianâs do that God created through evolution and that man and dinosaur did miss each other by millions of years.
I could believe that the dinosaurs were wiped out in the flood and thus man and dinosaur barely met. I could believe as some Christians do that God sent unbelievers a strong delusion because of their unbelief (Romans 1) and simply put the bones of animals that never existed in the ground in order to further delude them.
I could simply choose not to speak when this topic is raised thinking that as a Christian it is outside of my pay grade, that the answers are unknowable. I could choose to be cowed by the sheer numbers of people who unblinkingly accept the current paradigm.
Caption: The Real Postosuchus? See Below
But I know something they don’t know. I took a fact based approach. I went where the evidence took me and in this internet age the truth can be found. Many non-Christians donât know that faith is supposed to be built- not on nothing as they assumeâbut on evidence. âNow faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.â Heb 1:1
I have spent a lot of time sifting through the evidence in ancient history, the work of ancient âbiologistsâ the articles in old newspapers and recently the evidence in world famous archaeological museums. The evidence is clear. The evidence is persuasive.
The evidence proves that dinosaurs and man lived together all over the world in the last few thousand years. Now, the Bible is a âtypeâ of sword and in this dinosaur and man conversation weâre having they are the ones who donât have the facts or the truth. There is a reason why I am smiling:– I AM NOT LEFT HANDED!
Peabody Museum Zoomorphic Stone Heads
Historians say that dragons appear in the history and art of virtually every ancient culture (as do stories of a great flood). Hereâs an interesting fact along those lines; no matter what culture a piece of ancient art comes from everyone can instantly recognize a dragon. Isnât that interesting? Here we have a supposedly completely mythological creature, a product of the imagination of man and culture and yet they agree across geography and time in the salient characteristics of their portrayals with the added peculiarity that everyone knows that they are dragons?
No modern artist who works for a science journal or a museum or is otherwise engaged in depicting dinosaurs from a few bones is going to draw a dragon-like creature. So, although dragons are reptilian, frightening sometimes preternaturally large creaturesâand so are dinosaurs they donât often look much alike when you get down to the details. But hereâs the rub when it comes to that; no one living actually knows what dinosaurs looked like.
In prior articles on this topic weâve often quoted Discover Magazine on this point;
Thereâs a running joke among professional dinosaur artists that goes like this: Given just an elephant skeleton, theyâd probably render a titanic hamster. Does anyone know what dinosaurs really looked like? Sure we do. We see them everywhere, not just in the museums, but in magazines, movies, even in value meals at McDonaldâs. But all of these lifelike renderings are mostly artistic interpretations based on very sparse scientific evidence. Discover Magazine, What Did Dinosaurs Really Look Like? By William Speed Weed, Christopher Griffith|Friday, September 01, 2000
Of course, Discover Magazine isnât the only source that admits that science is just guessing when it puts forth a drawing or illustration of a dinosaurâparticularly when many dinosaurs are only known from a few bones.
A new book entitled âAll Yesterdays: Unique and Speculative Views of Dinosaurs and Other Prehistoric Animalsâ by paleo artists C.M Koseman and John Conway is a review of dinosaur depictions and misconceptions in science art and a speculation about potential alternate depictions. They are basically letting the reader in on their secret that the work they do is simply informed speculation.
This interpretation problem makes it tougher on “crypto-zoo-archaeologists” like me. My hypothesis that man and dinosaur lived during the same age and that the ancient peoples would have left evidence in the form of their art, history and artifacts is complicated by the fact that the work of paleo artists today might not match up with the work of the actual eyewitnesses living in the past.
Thus, for instance a dinosaur in an archaeological museum like Harvardâs Peabody Museum might be perfectly depicted by the ancient artist but not match up with current thinking on how that dinosaur looked and go unrecognized; categorized as zoomorphic, unknown, animal, mythological creature or simply reptile. (Actually my experience is that any depiction recognizable as a dinosaur or one which is deemed too close does not end up in the front room of the museum in any case).
For example, in eyewitness viewings of what I believe are living pterosaurs over the last few years some have described the creature the saw as âalmost prehistoric lookingâ, which could mean that they saw a living creature that did not completely comport with modern illustrations of the creature.
Moche Culture Vase in the Form of…?
In the last few weeks I set out to prove my hypothesis at the Harvard Peabody, online archaeological museum site as well as at other online collection sites. The Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology at Harvard University âis steward to one of the oldest and largest collections of cultural objects in the Western Hemisphereâ. Other online collections visited include, the Penn Museum, the Met and several Museums of Central and South America.
Could it be shown that creatures that are recognizable as dinosaurs and Not dragons-in the mythological sense are somehow going unnoticed in their online collections? Can we show how specific types of dinosaurs might have been erroneously depicted? In that case, the depiction would have to be close enough for an identification to be made.
In this article and shall we say âcollectionâ I intend to show once again through the arts of ancient peoples that man and dinosaur lived together within the last 5,000 yearsâbut only to the fair and open minded.
The Eyewitness to Recent, Ancient History Dinosaur Collection, Part 1
1)Chasmosaurus at the Museo Larco, Peru
Actually it is not a piece from the Peabody that I wish to start with. It is a piece from the Museo Larco that illustrates the points we have been making about identification and misidentification most clearly. (See complete vessel at top of this article).
The Larco Museum (Spanish: Museo ArqueolĂłgico Rafael Larco Herrera) is a privately owned museum of pre-Columbian art, located in the Pueblo Libre District of Lima, Peru. The museum is housed in an 18th-century vice-royal building built over a 7th-century pre-Columbian pyramid.
The Inca civilization spanned the period of 1438 to 1533 in pre-Columbian South America. That would make this piece between 500 to 600 years old.
|Inca Pot Water Carrier Lima|
Museo Larco, Peru
I believe that the animal atop this Inca water carrier (and atop this article) is a ceratopsian dinosaur of a type similar to Chasmosaurus particularly given the placement of its horn and the shape of its frill. Ceratopsians might have broken down neatly into the categories now suggested by science or they could have been as widely divergent as dogs are today. They may have been sexually dimorphic and animals identified as belonging to another species may have only been sexually dimorphic or juvenile versions of other science-identified species.
âChasmosaurus (/?kĂŠzm??s?r?s/ KAZ-mo-SAWR-?s) is a genus of ceratopsid dinosaur from the Upper Cretaceous Period of North America. Its name means ‘opening lizard’, referring to the large openings (fenestrae) in its frill (Greek chasma meaning ‘opening’ or ‘hollow’ or ‘gulf’ and sauros meaning ‘lizard’). With a length of 4â5 metres (13â16 ft) and a weight of 2 tonnes (2.2 short tons), Chasmosaurus was a ceratopsian of average size. Like all ceratopsians, it was purely herbivorous. It was initially to be called Protorosaurus, but this name had been previously published for another animal.
All specimens of Chasmosaurus were collected from the Dinosaur Park Formation of the Dinosaur Provincial Park of Alberta, Canada. C. russelli comes from the lower beds of the formation while C. belli comes from middle and upper beds. ââŠWikipedia
Let me explain what I believe that youâre looking at. It is a ceratopsian dinosaur similar to the Chasmosaurus. It is 500 years old. The right horn has broken off and is probably what is seen on the animal’s right side from the readerâs perspective.
The heavy ceratopsian tail curls up at the back and the animal fits in terms of body shape and tail for a ceratopsian. The animal has a crest and you should be able to see that the complete head, ending behind the horns includes a solid neck frill ending in a âVâ shape similar to that of the chasmosaurus. In the photo on the left I have thoughtfully replaced the animals missing horn. The artist took pains to make sure that the ceratopsian toes were outlined for the viewer as well.
I believe what we have here is a depiction of a ceratopsian dinosaur that differs slightly from what one expects given modern depictions. The beak is slightly less pronounced-but evident. The horns are actually in the exact place on its head as the horns on modern Chasmosaurus depictions. The creature has growths (possibly pre-horn?) growths on the front of its face that are not seen on ceratopsian depictions.
This is clearly a depiction of a ceratopsian dinosaur by an actual eyewitness some 500 years ago in pre Columbian South America. It should be noted that all the ceratopsia were supposed to have gone extinct 65 million years ago.
2)Peabody Museum â6,000 to 7,000 Year Oldâ Ceramic Bottle with Bi-Pedal Dinosaur (Iguanodon?) from South America
âPeabody Number: 90-27-30/54866
Display Title: Black ware stirrup spouted vase
Inventory Description: Ceramic bottle, stirrup spout, chipped rim, animal effigy, molded body, lying on its side.
The earliest ceramics known from the Americas have been found in the lower Amazon Basin. Ceramics from the Caverna de Pedra Pintada, near SantarĂ©m, Brazil, have been dated to 7,500 to 5,000 years ago. Ceramics from Taperinha, also near SantarĂ©m, have been dated to 7,000 to 6,000 years ago.â Peabody Museum
This appears to me quite clearly to represent some type of bi-pedal theropod dinosaur. Here we show the artifact on its side so that the identification of this dinosaur is more easily made.
The trio below is shown with two versions of the dinosaur iguanodon, a bi-pedal dinosaur which has been found in North America.
Distinctive features of iguanodon include large thumb spikes, which were possibly used for defence against predators, combined with long prehensile fifth fingers able to forage for foodâŠWikipedia.
Unfortunately that part of the sculpture has been worn away-like noses in Egyptian artifacts. Part of the tail has apparently broken off as well. I believe that this piece represents a bi pedal theropod dinosaur like iguanodon or a relative.
3)Postosuchus Sculpted by Pre Columbians From the Period AD 500-1350 at The Walters Art Museum?
The creature displayed at the top of the pre Columbian incense burner could be called a dragon, a crocodilian (the museum I.D.) or a mythical creature–but no one who believes that dinosaurs and their alleged ancestors died out more than 65 million years ago would ever think of this as a recently extinct, living creature.
Taking that point of view it is easy to ignore the reptilian/dinosaur like armor, the teeth which no lizard ever sported and the distinct horns. In looking at the creature carefully with the assumption that a living creature was being depicted a tentative crypto-zoo-archaeological identification is that of an archosaur like postosuchus.
Postosuchus, meaning “crocodile from Post”, is an extinct genus of rauisuchian reptiles…Postosuchus is a member of the clade Pseudosuchia, the lineage of archosaurs that includes modern crocodilians (the other main group of archosaurs is Avemetatarsalia, the lineage that includes non-avian dinosaurs and their descendants, birds). Its name refers to Post Quarry, a place in Texas where many fossils of the type species, P. kirkpatricki, were found…
Although the heavy build of the skeleton suggests that Postosuchus walked on all four limbs, the extreme shortness of the forelimbs relative to the hind limbs is a strong indication that Postosuchus was able to walk on two legs…Postosuchus possessed heterodonty dentition, which means each tooth was different in size and shape from the others.
A feature of the skull of postosuchus is a “crest” over each eye. Modern artists have had to decide how to draw or illustrate that skull feature and most have not significantly featured them. This piece from the Walters Art Museum has “eye crests” like those of postosuchus which are more clearly featured as crests above each eye.
In other pieces we’ve noted the three toes of a depiction which were similar to dinosaur toes. Postosuchus actually had a different manus and pes than did the dinosaurs. In the minds of scientists postosuchus and its relatives actually preceded the dinosaurs. Of course, most creationists believe that they lived at the same time.
The Museum Description: This incense burner is topped with the portrayal of a caiman or other member of the Crocodylidae family, one of the frequent animal spirit forms of Central American shamans. Its particularly aggressive stance may refer to the practitioner’s battle against supernatural forces.
Many such incense burners were found ritually broken on the slopes of a principal volcano on the island of Ometepe in Lake Nicaragua, the incense burner lid with its smoke issuing from the top mimicking an active volcano.
Among peoples from southern Nicaragua to Mesoamerica the earth was likened to the back of a crocodile floating in the primordial sea, its dorsal scutes being the volcanic north-south backbone that defines the continents of the Western Hemisphere. This incense burner, then, constitutes a profound ritual vessel pertaining to the transition from the natural to the supernatural realms and a symbolic model of the ancient Costa Rican world.
Uh, huh. That’s pretty complicated. Maybe it’s just a depiction of some exceptional local fauna of the time; an or perhaps a small dinosaur of unknown type. Certainly if this same depiction appeared on a site featuring artists renditions of dinosaurs this piece would not be out of place.
The photos above show comparisons of the ancient art work with modern depictions of postosuchus (without the strong “crests” and body armor and in comparison to the skull and the full skeleton of postosuchus. The comparisons appear to me to show a similarity of this depiction with that of one of the archosaurs–such as postosuchus. The feet are not those of a dinosaurs (many are three toed) but the feet of the animal depicted do correspond to that of our identification.
4)Nayarit Chinesco âEmbryonic Dogâ May Be Baby Sauropod
Nayarit is a state in western Mexico. The Nayarit culture from which this artifact comes is from the period 300 B.C. to 400 A.D.âor even older. This piece is said to represent an embryonic dog. Another identification would seem to be in order for this piece.
For one thing, dogs do not have necks this long. Here Iâve shown it in comparison to an animal that really did have such a long neck; the sauropod dinosaur.
Recently a sauropod embryo was found and the sauropod embryo depicted comes from the “Tiniest Giants: Discovering Dinosaur Eggs”.
Sauropods are supposed to have gone extinct 65 million years ago.
5)Ancient Pueblo Culture (1200 B.C.-1500 A.D.) Native Americans of What is Now Arizona Craft Dinosaur Named Aetosaur; Most of Whose Fossils Have Been Found in Arizona
Aetosaur Skeleton Top and Ancient Pueblo Artifact below.
âThe Pueblo people are Native American people in the Southwestern United States comprising several different language groups and two major cultural divisions, one organized by matrilineal kinship systems and the other having a patrilineal system.
These determine the clan membership of children, and lines of inheritance and descent. Their traditional economy is based on agriculture and trade. At the time of Spanish encounter in the 16th century, they were living in villages that the Spanish called pueblos, meaning “towns”ââŠWikipedia
This piece comes from a 1936 expedition to the Hopi reservation and was determined to be from one of the Pueblo Native American cultures. It is described by the Peabody Museum as âzoomorphicâ. Looking at a list of dinosaur fossils found in Arizona one can quickly see that there is a similarity between the archaeological piece and âthe aetosaur. (Angle of aetosaur skeleton head adjusted for comparison purposes.)
âAetosaurs order name Aetosauria from Greek, ????? (aetos, “eagle”) and ?????? (sauros, “lizard”)) are an extinct order of heavily armoured, medium- to large-sized Late Triassic herbivorous archosaurs. They have small heads, upturned snouts, erect limbs, and a body covered by plate-like scutes. All aetosaurs belong to the family Stagonolepididae.
Most fossils have been found from Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas…Wikipedia
Here is a sobering fact for those of us who can accept the fact that the ancient Pueblo people of Arizona actually saw and depicted an aetosaur which supposedly lived from 200 million years ago becoming extinct 65 million years or more ago;
âSince their armoured plates are often preserved and are abundant in certain localities, aetosaurs serve as important Late Triassic tetrapod index fossils. Many aetosaurs had wide geographic ranges, but their stratigraphic ranges were relatively short. Therefore, the presence of particular aetosaurs can accurately date a site that they are found in.â
You see the problem? Aetosaurs were roaming around the North American continent during the span of the Pueblo peoples; 1200 B.C. to 1500 A.D. and one of their artists memorialized the aetosaur in ceramic.
|Peabody Number: 36-131-10/8060|
Display Title: Zooomorphic black on white potsherd–animal form
Inventory Description: Ceramic, zoomorphic figurine, with tail, opened mouth, two feet, black painted design on back and sides
Geography/Provenience: North America/United States/Arizona/Navajo County/Hopi Reservation/Antelope Mesa/Awatovi
Intrasite: Test 14
Geo-Locale: Antelope Mesa
Materials: Ceramic Pigment
Provenance: Dr. John Otis Brew (1936)
Provenance: Peabody Museum Expedition (1936)
6) Crested Hadrosaur Depiction by the Ancient Peoples of Costa Rica at the Peabody Museum. (Modern Artists May Need to Put Some Weight on the Bones of these Depictions)
Crested Dinosaurs are fairly easy to recognize. Most of the crested dinosaurs are from the Lambeosaurinae of the hadrosaur group. The hadrosaurs were also known as the duck billed dinosaurs.
This depiction forms the legs of an ancient pottery piece. The pot is from Costa Rica, Central America. The crests on the various types of lambosaurines differed in size and shape even among the same species and they likely differed due to age and due to sexual dimorphism.
The hadrosaurs depicted have relatively small, round crests. Here we compare them to a number of known lambeosaurines including corythsaurus.
It is interesting that the depictions are clearly of the same animal but that the portraits differ. The ancient depictions are similar to modern ones except for the apparent weight of the creatures and the size of the eyes depicted.
âArchaeologists now know that civilization existed in Costa Rica for thousands of years before the arrival of Columbus, and evidence of human occupation in the region dates back 10,000 years. Among the cultural mysteries left behind by the area’s pre-Columbian inhabitants are thousands of perfectly spherical granite bolas that have been found near the west coast.
The sizes of these inimitable relics range from that of a baseball to that of a Volkswagen bus. Ruins of a large, ancient city complete with aqueducts were recently found east of San Jose, and some marvelously sophisticated gold and jade work was being wrought in the southwest as far back as 1,000 years ago. Some archeological sites in the central highlands and Nicoya peninsula have shown evidence of influence from the Mexican Olmec and Nahuatl civilizations.
By the time Columbus arrived, there were four major indigenous tribes living in Costa Rica. The east coast was the realm of the Caribs, while the Borucas, Chibchas, and Diquis resided in the southwest. â..geographia.com
|Peabody Number: 26-44-20/C9956|
Display Title: Small pottery vessel
Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic complete tripod jar, zoomorphic rattle feet (1 missing)
Central America/Costa Rica
7)A New Look at Dicynodont Therapsids Like Moschop from the Ancient Peoples Living I Peru, South America
The identity of this animal portrait was unknown apparently and thus it was given the general description âanimal effigyâ by the Harvard Peabody Museum. Was this animal purely a mythological one seen only in the imaginary eye of the artistâor was it seen with the artistâs actual eyes?
As you will see the depiction of the living therapsid is actually close enough to modern depictions of these types of creatures as to be readily identified. In appearance it is close to that of therapsids such as moschops which we know from fossils found in South Africa.
âMoschops (Greek for “calf face”) is an extinct genus of therapsid that lived in the Guadalupian epoch, around 268-260 million years ago. Therapsids are synapsids which were at one time the dominant land animals. It was around 2.7 metres (8 ft 10 in) long..
âŠ.Moschops was heavily built, and had short, chisel-like teeth for cropping vegetation. Moschops mostly ate plants, but sometimes ate meat. The forelegs sprawled outwards, like those of a modern lizard, but the hind legs were under the body, like those of a mammal.â Wikipedia
|Peabody Number: 46-77-30/5868|
Display Title: Pottery animal figurine
Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic whistle, animal effigy
South America/Peru/La Libertad Region/
Here we show the ancient, ceramic artifact in comparison to moschop and to another dicynodont therapsid. Moschops and therapsids similar to him supposedly went extinct before the dinosaurs even evolved. Clearly of this ancient Peruvian artifact represents one of these creatures something is extremely wrong with the evolutionary time scale.
8) Quapawâs âUnderwater Pantherâ from the 1500âs Could In Fact Be an Eyewitness Depiction of Dinosaur Such As Tenontosaurus
According to Wikipedia the Mississippian culture was a mound building group of indigenous people who lived in the Midwestern, Eastern, and Southeastern United States from approximately 800 A.D. to 1500 A.D. The collectors at Artsmia.org believe it to be a depiction of a mythological creature called an underwater panther. That makes these people seem âmysticalâ all right.
But what if it is an accurate depiction of an animal living at the time that we would call a dinosaur-rendered somewhat invisible as a depiction because modern versions of the creature differ greatly? Here is the museum description:
âThe prominent colored swirls and eye motifs mark this animal as an Underwater Panther, one of the primary beings in the ancient Mississippian belief system and that of their descendants. The swirling pattern on its sides signifies water, while the eye markings allude to the animal’s unusually keen vision.
Red and white were symbolically significant colors that represented fundamental oppositions such as peace and war, light and dark and the on-going struggle between the celestial and subterranean realms. Underwater Panthers belonged to the subterranean and possessed great supernatural power. Their significance led Mississippian and subsequent artists to depict them frequently in many forms and media, including three-dimensional sculptures like this vessel. â
The toes of this creature appear to be triple toed-similar to a dinosaur. Its tail is very thick in the way dinosaur tails are often illustrated by modern paleo artists. I took a look to see what types of dinosaur fossils were prominent with respect to quadruped dinosaurs in those parts of the United States.
Here we show the âunderwater pantherâ in comparison to tenontosaurus a genus of medium to large ornnithopod dinosaurs. It should be noted that there were a number of ornnithopod dinosaurs found to have lived in those parts of north America which would have had similar body shapes.
The genus tenontosaurus is known from the late Aptian to Albian ages of the middle Cretaceous period sediments of western North America, dating between 115 to 108 million years ago. It was formerly thought to be a ‘hypsilophodont’, but since Hypsilophodontia is no longer considered a clade, it is now considered to be a very primitive iguanodont.
The teeth of this portrait do give me pause. The point is however not that we know the specific type of dinosaur that was sculpted, but rather that it is more likely that it is a dinosaur being depicted here rather than an underwater panther (which itself sounds like a cryptid).
Artist Unknown (Quapaw)
(United States, North America), c. 1500
9 1/8 x 10 3/8 x 5 1/4 in. (23.18 x 26.35 x 13.34 cm)
The William Hood Dunwoody Fund 2004.33
9)Metropolitan Museum of Asian Artâs Sauropod Dinosaur from Iran 250 B.C. to 225 A.D.
This artifact is from the Metropolitan Museum of Asian art and is labeled âzoomorphicâ. Iâm somewhat surprised that they didnât call it a camel. Clearly however it is a sculpted ceramic in the form of a sauropod dinosaur.
Sauropod dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago according to science. This piece was estimated to have been made between 250 B.C. and 225 A.ZD. That period obviously covers the time of Christ.
250 B.C.E.- 225 C.E.
H: 15.2 W: 28.4 D: 12.1 cm
Northern Iran, Northern Iran S1987.944
10) Ulisse Aldrovandiâs Detailed Drawing of A Long Tailed Pterosaur; Before They Were âDiscoveredâ By Science
Ulisse Aldrovandi (also Aldrovandus) was born in 1522 and died in 1605. He is sometimes referred to as the father of natural history studies. By profession he was a professor of philosophy but eventually became one of the first professors of the natural sciences at Bologna (no offense intended).
Ulisse died 250 years before the first pterosaur was discovered by a scientist and he mistakenly thought it was a sea going creature. It was not until the beginning of the 19th century that science realized that pterosaurs were flying creatures.
âThe first pterosaur fossil was described by the Italian naturalist Cosimo Collini in 1784. Collini misinterpreted his specimen as a seagoing creature that used its long front limbs as paddles.
A few scientists continued to support the aquatic interpretation even until 1830, when the German zoologist Johann Georg Wagler suggested that Pterodactylus used its wings as flippers. Georges Cuvier first suggested that pterosaurs were flying creatures in 1801, and coined the name “Ptero-dactyle” in 1809 for the specimen recovered in Germany.â âŠWikipedia
After his death his book Serpentum, et draconum historiĂŠ Serpentum, et Draconum was published. In it, was a drawing supposedly from life (well it was dead!) of a dragon which comports very well with a long tailed, crested pterosaur especially given that Aldrovandi was a philosopher and naturalist âand not an artist.
The interesting thing about Aldrovandiâs pterosaur is that it has the crest of the pteranodon and the tail of one of the long tailed rhamphorhynchoid pterosaurs. Although we donât know this exact pterosaur from science it closely matches modern day eyewitness descriptions and drawings of a long tailed pterosaur. (There are long tail crested pterosaurs known to science but none with the classic bone sticking out the back of its head kind).
Note what might look like another set of small wings at the legs of Aldrovandiâs dragon. It is shown here in the more modern drawing between the pteranodonâs legs. That is called the uropatagium; and since it does not appear on birds it is one indication that Aldrovandi actually saw what he drew.
âsome pterosaur groups had a membrane that stretched between the legs, possibly connecting to or incorporating the tail, called the uropatagium; the extent of this membrane isn’t certain, as studies on Sordes seem to suggest that it simply connected the legs but did not involve the tail (rendering it a cruropatagium). It is generally agreed though that non-pterodactyloid pterosaurs had a broader uro/cruropatagium, with pterodactyloids only having membranes running along the legs; Pteranodon in particular might have developed/redeveloped an uropatagium, given the structure of the tailâ..Wikipedia
The picture on the right (above) shows Aldrovandiâs dragon compared to Eskin Kuhnâs drawing (bottom, right) from his eyewitness sighting in the 1970âs. Kuhn was an artist and a soldier stationed at Guantanmo Bay, Cuba. His âpteranodonâ had both the backwards facing âcrestâ and the long tail with tail vain of the rhamphorhynchoid pterosaurs. Top right is a modern drawing of a pteranodon without the long tail. Aldrovandi has the tail, crest and bat like wings of a pterosaur.
11) Peabody Museum Seeks to Make an Ancient Veraguas Culture Dinosaur Evolve Into a Bird Right Before Our Eyes
The âBirdâ effigy ceramic whistle (middle) is from the ancient Veraguas Culture of Panama. That culture inhabited Panama from approximately 700 A.D. to 1530 A.D.
âThis culture inhabited the central region of what is now province of VeraguĂĄs in Panama. The area extends from the Pacific to the Caribbean coast and includes a number of islands. The climate here is mainly humid and tropical, and the landscape includes wooded areas and valleys suitable for agriculture, as well as high mountains, hilly areas, and coastal lowlands.â Museo Chileno de Arte Precolombino
The ceramic sculpture with three legs does not have the correct number for either the bird (two) or the crested hadrosaur (four). My take is that given the teeth (which birds do not have) and the thick tail this is not a depiction of a bird but rather of a crested hadrosaur such as corythosaurus.
The single combined front legs represent the two front legs of the creature and this is not uncommon with pre Columbian art. One can certainly decide for his or her self.
|Peabody Number: 39-90-20/6461|
Display Title: Pottery bird effigy whistle. Light brown, probably faded from red.
Inventory Description: Ceramic whistle, animal effigy with tripod legs
Geography/Provenience: Central America/Panama/Veraguas
12)Plesiosaur or Dinosaur? Mythological or Cryptozoological?
Here are a number of ancient artifacts that do beg the question; sea monster or dinosaur. It may not be clear what animal the artist has in mind but I believe that they so clearly mirror what modern day artists see as dinosaurs and marine reptiles that they simply cannot be imaginary creatures.
The ancient artist in each case intended to represent an actual living creature and they must have expected the beholder to recognize what the creature was as well. In each of these examples only a portion of the animal is sculpted making the crypto detective work more difficult.
In situations like these the museum or the auction house usually leaves this kind of speculation to the viewer but often uses the term âzoomorphicâ as the description. Often as well they will name a creature for which if it were truly what the ancient artist intended he/she would have proven to be a terrible artist. That should drive down prices!
Christieâs auction house described this artifact as a horse which may seem reasonable at first but no horse would have that long a neck. Alternative identifications include the plesiosaur or a dinosaur. Plesiosaurs of course supposedly went extinct around 65 million years ago as did it is claimed, the dinosaur.
The artifact is thought to have come from the period of up to 1,000 Years before Christ.
ANCIENT NEAR EASTERN TERRACOTTA ZOOMORPHIC RHYTON
CIRCA LATE 1ST MILLENNIUM B.C.
One in the form of a seated camel, black glazed, carrying two jars on either side of its back; another in the form of a horse, a strap handle joining the rim to the back of the vessel, a perforation at the top of the head forming the spout, 16 cm. high max.; an Amlash terracotta steatopygous idol, possibly 2nd Millenium B.C., 20.5 cm. high, mounted (repaired); and a bull rhyton, not ancient, 15 cm. high (4)
This item is described as a âserpentâ effigy bowl; perhaps a âsea serpentâ?
This pottery piece has been categorized as Neeleyâs Ferry which are artifacts of one of the ancient group of State of Arkansas cultures. Ancient peoples are thought to have lived in Arkansas between 600 B.C. and 1600 A.D.
The Peabody specifically dated the artifact between 1350 and 1550.
This piece is further described as an earthen bowl, animal. The animal has a head with teeth giving the appearance of either a sea creature with long winding tail or perhaps a dinosaur.
Above shows our “sea monster” at another angle which provides additional detail concerning the shape of the head and tail. By the way, seals have fins and flippers not “tails”.
This final piece is also from the Neeleyâs Ferry mounds and is described as a âceramic effigy vessel of zoomorphic designâ.
As you can see it is very reminiscent of modern paleoartistâs depiction of theropod or meat eating dinosaurs. Of course, we only have the head but is it possible that the artist saw and knew about a then living version of such a creature?
Or is it more believable that this is an effigy of a mythological animal which accidently reminds us of modern ideas about how dinosaurs looked?
| Peabody Number: 80-20-10/21195|
Display Title: Ceramic effigy vessel, zoomorphic design
Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic effigy vessel, zoomophic design
Date: A.D. 1350 – 1550
Culture/Period: Parkin Phase
Geography/Provenience:North America/United States/Arkansas/Cross County/
Intrasite: Grave, 3 feet deep Geo-Locale: Saint Francis River, West side of
Collector: Edwin Curtiss (01/01/1880)
Bonus: Nicoya, Pre Columbian Incense Burner Maker Tops Reptilian Artifact with Feet of a Theropod Dinosaur Which is Quite A Feat for Someone Who Missed Dinosaurs by 65M Years
Top left is a pre Columbian Censer (Incensario), from the 10thâ12th century. There are many examples of this type of pre Columbian censer topped by a dragon/dinosaur. The excellent example at the top left is at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. If you take the time you can see the full body of a quadruped, dinosaur like creature with an extremely ornate crest or horns. This is typical of these artifacts.
No matter how un crocodile like the animal perched at the top is this type of vessel is known as either alligator or crocodile ware and elaborate stories have been concocted by archaeologists about the sacred nature of crocodiles and alligators in the pre Columbian cultures. Here’s a quote describing the object, top left by the Met.
The flare-footed, spherical bowl of this ceramic censer is enhanced, in silhouette, by the flamboyance of its chimney. Textured, appliquĂ© bands encircle and emphasize the tall smoothness of the chimney. On the perforated cap rests an elaborate crested crocodilian. Smoke from the incense that was burned in the bowl escaped through the holes of the cap and from openings in the animal’s body. The rhythmical texture of the appliquĂ© visually unites it with the surface of the creature’s body where the nubby portions are taken to represent the scutes of the reptile.
Both textured appliquĂ©s and scutes are surfaced in white. The spiky crest that surrounds the head is customarily found in incensarios of this period. Crocodilians frequently appear in Costa Rican art, strongly suggesting the supernatural import of these creatures in ancient times…The Met
On the Top right is a photo of one of those pre Columbian artifacts, Nicoya, an incense burner.
what is interesting about the artifact on the top, right is that a close up of the animals feet (bottom left) reveal and striking similarity of its feet as sculpted to that of the theropod dinsoaurs (bottom, right) and unlike those of lizards-or crocodiles.
Conclusion: There are hundreds if not thousands of artifacts in museums around the world containing representations of extinct creatures that we now called dinosaurs. The most obvious examples are labeled as fakes and are in provide collections.
Those that are not obvious dinosaurs are labeled dragons, unknown, zoomorphic, mythological, animal etc. Of course many artifacts are just those things. The issue is that when a group (archaeologists) are absolutely convinced that these animals lived millions of years ago all evidence will be viewed to reflect that belief and those that donât will be reinterpreted, labeled or hidden away.
In any case if you should find that even one of the items in our collection is a dinosaur-or that a dinosaur is the most likely explanation that one should be enough to make you question the current scientific history control. But we understand that bucking the system is difficult to do.
Since I began with a quote from the Princess Bride it might be appropriate to finish with a modified version of another such quote:
Big Science: We face each other as God intended. Sportsmanlike. No tricks, no weapons, skill against skill alone. (not actually a believer)
Believer: You mean, youâll put down your rock and Iâll put down my sword, and weâll try to convince each other like civilized people-with facts and evidence?
Big Science; [brandishing rock (public opinion, science mythology, ridicule] I could just wipe you out now.
Believer: Frankly, I think the odds are slightly in your favor at hand fighting.
Big Science: Itâs not my fault being the biggest and the strongest. I donât even exercise.