Posts Tagged ‘creation’

Despite Coelacanth Does the Evolutionary Dogma Re Man and Dinosaur Remain Unshaken?
Or, Do Those Dogon Antique Dinosaurs of West Africa Prove Science is Myth-Staken

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Feb 13 2013


Photo:Antique Dogon People’s Sculpture at the Metropolitan Museum of Art;Details and ID comparisons below.

The coelacanth is a species of fish which had been thought by evolutionists to have evolved 400 million years ago (before the dinosaurs) and to have become extinct 80 million years ago. That was until living specimens began to be found in 1938.

Question; what percentage wrong were evolutionary scientists about Coelacanth? I mean if you believed that they were a magical fish that would take you direct to Atlantis-on their backs if you said the secret word, you would be wrong- but really not that much more wrong than evolutionists had been. They believed up until 1938 that coelacanth walked on the sea bed using its two pairs of double fins, and that it represented a transitional form between land and sea creatures.

Shockingly for some, the living coelacanths discovered then and since look just like their fossils. Thus, evolutionists who discovered that they were off 80 million years in terms of extinction had to face the prospect of also being off 400 million years in terms of evolution. In 1938 it became known that there were no coelacanth experts but in a way one could understand their mistake; the coelocanth is all pre-historicky looking.



Similarly, there are no dinosaur experts either. No one really knows what they looked like. Many if not most ideas about them have already been proved wrong or have experienced “turbulence”. Species and types merge and disappear or are it almost seems randomly moved over to another tree or up and down said evolutionary tree.

Are they warm blooded or cold blooded? Covered with feathers? Last year science suggested that they have overestimated the size of some dinosaurs by 33% to 50%. A number of species of dinosaurs completely disappeared last year when it was decided that some individuals were merely juvenile versions of another type of dinosaur.

Paleontologists are famous for naming essentially the same dinosaur found in various locales and respective continents the ME-o-saurus (“ME” being the name of each discoverer). Science tells us that dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago but I’m afraid that the historical data tells us otherwise. We’ll take a quick peek at a few artifacts from West Africa (some previously seen here) to see if its credible to believe that man and dinosaur never coexisted.

The Dogon Peoples

“The Bandiagara Cliffs The Dogon are an ethnic group living in the central plateau region of the country of Mali, in the West of the Continent of Africa, south of the Niger bend, near the city of Bandiagara, in the Mopti region. The population numbers between 400,000 and 800,000[1] The Dogon are best known for their religious traditions, their mask dances, wooden sculpture and their architecture…….


The principal Dogon area is bisected by the Bandiagara Escarpment, a sandstone cliff of up to 500m (1,640 ft) high, stretching about 150 km (90 miles). To the southeast of the cliff, the sandy Séno-Gondo Plains are found, and northwest of the cliff are the Bandiagara Highlands. Historically, Dogon villages were established in the Bandiagara area in consequence of the Dogon people’s collective refusal to convert to Islam a thousand years ago.

Dogon insecurity in the face of these historical pressures caused them to locate their villages in defensible positions along the walls of the escarpment. The other factor influencing their choice of settlement location is water. The Niger River is nearby and in the sandstone rock, a rivulet runs at the foot of the cliff at the lowest point of the area during the wet season.


Dogon art is primarily sculpture. Dogon art revolves around religious values, ideals, and freedoms (Laude, 19). Dogon sculptures are not made to be seen publicly, and are commonly hidden from the public eye within the houses of families, sanctuaries, or kept with the Hogon (Laude, 20). The importance of secrecy is due to the symbolic meaning behind the pieces and the process by which they are made.

Themes found throughout Dogon sculpture consist of figures with raised arms, superimposed bearded figures, horsemen, stools with caryatids, women with children, figures covering their faces, women grinding pearl millet, women bearing vessels on their heads, donkeys bearing cups, musicians, dogs, quadruped-shaped troughs or benches, figures bending from the waist, mirror-images, aproned figures, and standing figures (Laude, 46-52). Signs of other contacts and origins are evident in Dogon art. The Dogon people were not the first inhabitants of the cliffs of Bandiagara. Influence from Tellem art is evident in Dogon art because of its rectilinear designs (Laude, 24).”..Wikipedia

Dogon Zoomorphic Head


Time Period’ 1800-early 1900’s. The Dogon Peoples. Mali Dimensions:
H x W: 8 x 1in. (20.3 x 2.5cm) Wood and Iron
The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The Bryce Holcombe Collection of African Decorative Art, Bequest of Bryce Holcombe, 1984

The item is described as “zoomorphic. It is an animal or animal like, but the museum is not able or ready to make an identification. They may consider it to be a mythological creature. In our view it closely matches the current view of the appearance of the crested, duck billed dinosaurs-the lambeosaurines although few if any hadrosaur fossils have been found in West Africa.

Here we show the sculpture in comparison to one of the crested hadrosaurine dinosaurs, hypacrosaurus.


Hypacrosaurus was a genus of duckbill dinosaur similar in appearance to Corythosaurus. Like Corythosaurus, it had a tall, hollow rounded crest, although not as large and straight. It is known from the remains of two species that spanned 75 to 67 million years ago, in the Late Cretaceous of Alberta, Canada, and Montana, USA, and is the latest hollow-crested duckbill known from good remains in North America. It was an obscure genus until the description of nests, eggs, and hatchlings belonging to H. stebingeri in the 1990s.

It is not our intent to claim that this traditional Dogon sculpture represents hypacrosaurus, merely that it likely represents one of the closely related lambeosauine, crested, duckbilled dinosaurs. The specific type may have yet to be discovered. There are alternate suggestions for this piece of sculpture including a crested duck but we think that it very closely resembles a dinosaur that was thought by science to have gone extinct 65 million years ago.

500 Year Old Dogon Bipedal Statue


The Dogon peoples have become somewhat of the darlings of individuals around the world who believe that ancient technological prowess which is an enigma can best be explained by the belief that in the distant past the earth was visited by advanced aliens who imparted their knowledge to humans in some fashion. There are real archaeological anomalies out there and if one doesn’t have a Genesis/biblical system of belief it easy to see why many would find the ability of the current scientific paradigm to explain them insufficient and why they would construct alternate theories do deal with them.

“Certain researchers investigating the Dogon have reported that they seem to possess advanced astronomical knowledge, the nature and source of which have subsequently become embroiled in controversy. From 1931 to 1956 the French anthropologist Marcel Griaule studied the Dogon. This included field missions ranging from several days to two months in 1931, 1935, 1937 and 1938 and then annually from 1946 until 1956. In late 1946 Griaule spent a consecutive thirty-three days in conversations with the Dogon wiseman Ogotemmêli, the source of much of Griaule and Dieterlen’s future publications.

They reported that the Dogon believe that the brightest star in the sky, Sirius (sigi tolo or ‘star of the Sigui’, has two companion stars, p tolo (the Digitaria star), and mm ya tolo, (the female Sorghum star), respectively the first and second companions of Sirius A. Sirius, in the Dogon system, formed one of the foci for the orbit of a tiny star, the companionate Digitaria star. When Digitaria is closest to Sirius, that star brightens: when it is farthest from Sirius, it gives off a twinkling effect that suggests to the observer several stars. The orbit cycle takes 50 years. They also claimed that the Dogon appeared to know of the rings of Saturn, and the moons of Jupiter.
Griaule and Dieterlen were puzzled by this Sudanese star system, and prefaced their analysis with the following

remark:-
The problem of knowing how, with no instruments at their disposal, men could know the movements and certain characteristics of virtually invisible stars has not been settled, nor even posed.

In 1976 Robert K. G. Temple wrote a book called The Sirius Mystery arguing that the Dogon’s system reveals precise knowledge of cosmological facts only known by the development of modern astronomy, since they appear to know, from Griaule and Dieterlen’s account, that Sirius was part of a binary star system, whose second star, Sirius B, a white dwarf, was however completely invisible to the human eye, (just as Digitaria is the smallest grain[clarification needed] known to the Dogon), and that it took 50 years to complete its orbit. The existence of Sirius B had only been inferred to exist through mathematical calculations undertaken by Friedrich Bessel in 1844. Temple then argued that the Dogon’s information, if traced back to ancient Egyptian sources and myth, indicated an extraterrestrial transmission of knowledge of the stars. Neither Griaule nor Dieterlen had ever made such bold claims about a putative esoteric source for the Dogon’s knowledge.”…Wikipedia


I mention the foregoing because this little 500 year old Dogon metal statue has been swept up into this alien story by calling it a Nommo, a kind of fish/amphibian god slash alien.

Its reptilian, its walking in a bipedal fashion and its strange looking. For purposes of the alien scenario it fits in nicely-if you ignore the fact that it looks quite a bit like a terrestrial animal we know well.

From the Genesis creation account perspective, however it clearly fits as a creation of the first six days; a bipedal dinosaur.

Here we compare it with a more or less random, carnivorous, three toed, bipedal dinosaur.

Which is it”, then an alien fish/amphibian god representative –or an indication that the Dogon peoples of West Africa interacted with, carnivorous, bipedal dinosaurs within the last 1,000 years?

Mystery of the African (Dogon) Ornithopod Dinosaur

Around the time Sir Richard Owen had coined the term “dinosaur” to describe the giant “terrible lizards” whose bones were then being discovered in the mid-1800′s the Dogon tribe was creating art which appears to represent one of them riding one of those creatures.



Features of the “dinosaur” are accurate enough for a species identification to be made. An Ornithopod dinosaur, in our humble opinion.

The birdlike head with strong jawline, “duck bill”; and the knees appearing to bend in the “wrong” direction (opposite ours) separate this dinosaur from the sauropods.

In actuality the front legs do bend in the opposite direction, but it the high ankles of these creatures which make it appear that the rear legs also bend in the forward direction.

Examples of the Ornithopod dinosaur depicted include; iguanadon and hadrosaurus as shown below. Note also the accuracy of this African depiction compared to early “scientific” depictions.

It’s interesting to note that the gallery showing this piece claims that this is dinosaur, from the mid-1800′s and that they can authenticate its age and origin. If you’ve got a spare $1,200, pick it up and send us a photo of the other side of the piece.

Antique African bronze dinosaur



Dogon Tribe African bronze vessel in the form of dinosaur, with the lid, on the lid a seated human figurine, the body of the vessel with linear scarifications, long tail. Covered in a light earthen patina. Antique African artifact 1800′s AD. This antique African artifact comes with a certificate of authenticity and time period.
All ancient artifacts and antiques, ancient jewelry, ancient statues, etc. are guaranteed to be authentic and from the time period stated.

All artifacts come with a certificate of authenticity and time period. We specialize in antiquities located in our online Treasures of the World gallery at World Wide Store.

View our ancient artifacts list view or aisles for other extraordinary artifacts. Also see other categories, Ancient artifacts Byzantine, Celtic, Cycladic, Egyptian, European, Greek, Holy land, Luristan, Mesopotamian, Persian, Roman, Syrian, African artifacts, Maya, and Prehistoric artifacts.

Many artifacts are rare and date back as far as 3000 BC. All artifacts are guaranteed to be authentic. Artifacts are one of a kind. If the item you want has already sold we may have something similar available.
Antique African bronze dinosaur
1800′s AD
measures: 14″ x 7 1/2″ $1200.00…..Treasures of the World”

Photo:Artifact with Iguanadon middle, and hadrosaurus, bottom.


When we discovered this artifact online, it had already been purchased by our friend Vance Nelson at CreationTruthMinistries.org. He currently has it in his possession and this new photo is Copyright CreationTruthMinistries.

Looking at the piece again we were struck by how detailed it actually is; the “skin” of the “dinosaur” could also provide evidence that the artist actually saw a living version of the creature at a time scientific depictions of dinosaurs were still “primitive”.

Note the diamond shapes that cover the entire creature. Does that feature match up with any modern dinosaur discoveries we wondered; remembering that we thought the artifact represented an Ornithopod dinosaur.

Hadrosaur Skeleton Found

“The hadrosaur skeleton itself which includes parts of the hip, a femur, part of a foot, and a 10-foot section of tail that is missing its tip is already an uncommon discovery because it is the most complete dinosaur skeleton, and the first crested hadrosaur, ever discovered in southern Utah’s Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, says Alan Titus, a BLM paleontologist with the monument. Geology and paleontology were part of the reason this monument was established, Titus says.

This specimen is also special because many of the skin impressions were found in direct contact with the bone, so scientists can place with confidence the different scale patterns on particular parts of the dinosaur, Titus adds.

The specimen has two distinct skin patterns, says David Gillette, the dig’s lead scientist and a curator of the Museum of Northern Arizona. A diamond-shaped pattern was found near the tail’s tip, he says, while a more irregular and polygonal pattern was uncovered closer to the hip”….Geotimes, oct 2001

Other West African Dinosaurs and Supposedly Extinct Animals

The West African area seems to have been a hotbed of ancient dinosaur activity. In addition to the Dogon of Mali, items from the nearby Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Niger, the Sudan, Chad and Cameroon, most of which are not included in this article abound.

Not Just Dinosaurs; the Ancient West African’s Clearly “Interacted” with “Extinct” Elephant: Did Platybelodon Become Extinct Between 5 Million and 25 Million Years Ago-Or Did He Live in the Recent Past?


If dogs had become extinct 400 to 500 years ago, evolutionists probably would have created an elaborate family tree and asserted that the various types had evolved over millions of years. Maybe the Pekinese, Chihuahuas and Boxers would have been selected as the older more primitive dogs who would later, in this evolutionary scenario have evolved into the physically larger more gracile forms such as the Collie, the German Shepherd, the Greyhound and the Whippet. No doubt the wolf and other dog breeds would be in the middle branches somewhere.

Evolutionists see the animal tree as essentially a vertical one where millions of years are needed for creatures to evolve from one form to another. Creationists believe that the relationship between animals is horizontal with all forms living at the same time and/or genetic variations of the same type separated by time or distance. The polar bear and the brown bear are still bears, who exhibit their built in genetic variation.

The elephant as we know him is supposed to have evolved from more primitive forms of the order Proboscidea. One such “primitive” alleged elephant was Platybelodon, supposedly extinct before the evolution of modern man. But hey, why is one perched on top of this ancient Sudanese hat? (Fossils of platybelodon have also been found on the continent of Africa.)

“Platybelodon (“flat-tusk”) was a genus of large herbivorous mammal related to the elephant (order Proboscidea).
It lived during the Miocene Epoch, about 15-4 million years ago. Although it thrived during its time, it did not survive past the Miocene and is now extinct.

Some have speculated that it became too specialized and was unable to adapt to changing environmental conditions. Platybelodon was previously believed to have fed in the swampy areas of grassy savannas using its teeth to shovel up aquatic and semi-aquatic vegetation.

Photo, right: The animal displayed on the top of the Antique Sudanese “Hat” is compared with modern depictions of platybelodon.


However, wear patterns on the teeth suggest that it used its lower tusks to strip bark from trees. Platybelodon was very similar to the Amebelodon, another gomphothere species.

Another possibility is that it used its shovel-tusks to dig for water in dry seasons.
Due to the shape of the two lower teeth, which are worn by many gomphothere species (such as Platybelodon and Amebelodon) they are popularly known as shovel tuskers”….Wikipedia

Habitat
Platybelodon lived in wet parts of prairies and ate soft plants (including water plants).
When Platybelodon Lived
This prehistoric elephant lived during the middle to late Miocene (roughly 25 million years ago).
Classification
Platybelodon was an early mammal. Class Mammalia (mammals), Order Proboscidea, Suborder Elephantoidea (elephants), Family Gomphothere (closely related to Amebelodon), Genus Platybelodon.
Fossils
Fossils of Platybelodon have been found in North America, eastern Europe, Africa, and northwestern China (these animals probably crossed via the Siberian land bridge between the continents of Asia and North America)”….Enchanted Learning.com

  

Baule Ancient Dinosaur from Ivory Coast? BAULE ZOOMORPHIC SEAT, ULIMBI BIA, IVORY COAST
Price Realized $7,500
Estimate
$3,000 – $4,000
Sale Information
Sale 2661
Arts of Africa, Oceania and the Americas including Property from the Estate of Ernst Beyeler
10 May 2012
New York, Rockefeller Plaza
TRADITIONAL SCULPTURE FROM UPPER VOLTA
An Exhibition of objects from New-York museums and private collectors
Exhibition Catalog, October 24, 1978 – March 24, 1979
New York, The African-American Institute
1978
Lot Description
BAULE ZOOMORPHIC SEAT, ULIMBI BIA, IVORY COAST
Length: 44½ in. (113 cm.)

This item is compared to a mid-sized quadrupedal dinosaur. This piece has four legs so it is not a bird. Morphologically it is quite similar to this dinosaur depiction. It does not appear to be a lizard.


“The Baule belong to the Akan peoples who inhabit Ghana and Côte d’Ivoire. Three hundred years ago the Baule people migrated westward from Ghana when the Asante rose to power. The tale of how they broke away from the Asante has been preserved in their oral traditions.

During the Asante rise to power the Baule queen, Aura Poku, was in direct competition with the current Asante king. When the Asante prevailed, the queen led her people away to the land they now occupy. The male descendant of Aura Poku still lives in the palace she established and is honored by the Baule as their nominal king.” Arts of Africa

  

An Assembly of Various Allegedly “Extinct for Millions of Years Creatures” In Traditional Upper Volta Sculpture


TRADITIONAL SCULPTURE FROM UPPER VOLTA
An Exhibition of objects from New-York museums and private collectors
Exhibition Catalog, October 24, 1978 – March 24, 1979
New York
The African-American Institute
1978
26 x 21 cm

This antique sculpture from the Upper Volta region (now called Burkina Faso) appears to represent several creatures thought to have been extinct for millions of years. The quadrupeds have horned faces as do the ceratopsian dinosaurs and the bipedal, non human, winged creatures appear to represent several types of pterosaurs.

Both pterosaurs and birds have keeled breastbones but it is especially noticeable on this antique sculpture.

Conclusion:

These are just a few examples of art and artifacts from Western Africa which indicate a familiarity with various types of extinct dinosaurs and other creatures. Can some of them be explained away?

Perhaps.

Can all of them be explained away as mythological or fake? I don’t think so. We’ve encountered hundreds of examples of ancient or antique artifacts that we think prove that just as science was wrong with respect to the ceolocanth by 80,000,000 years (with no evolutionary changes in 400,000,000 evolution years) it is certainly possible that they are also wrong about the evolution of and extinction of the dinosaurs.

Late Survival Theorem, Regarding Chalicotherium
From A Comfy Chair, We I.D. Un-cuddly “Nandi Bear”?
Plus, a Terrace of Lions? Dude You’re not even Tryin’
Enigma’s & Mysteries Due to Skewed View of History

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, Fin De Siecle, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Dec 04 2012



Gen 1:25 And God made the beasts of the earth after their kinds, and cattle after their kinds, and every thing that creeps upon the earth after its kind:
and God saw that it was good.”

   
Can a Leopard Change Its Paradigm?

As a Christian my interests are not strictly limited to debates about the meaning of scripture, issues concerning salvation or debates concerning the existence of God. Those are all important to be sure but throughout history science has been driven by human curiosity about and discoveries concerning the world and the universe that God has made.

One of the interests I have is in something I like to call crypto-zoo-archaeology. Clues to the true history of our planet can be discovered by examining the art and artifacts of past civilizations. The truth is; studying and writing about what I and many others have found in these artifacts is another way of addressing; the meaning of scripture, issues concerning salvation and debates concerning the existence of God.


In this pursuit I have found that those who accept the literal creation account of Genesis have an incredible advantage in this arena. One can look at the artifacts of ancient history through at least two filters; 1)that all living creatures are descended from a single living cell and have evolved through some process (essentially linear and sequential) into the higher order living species that we see today, or 2)the Genesis account of creation which would mean that all living creatures including man have all lived together simultaneously through all history in essentially their current forms.

No matter which filter one uses much of ancient history will still be a puzzle. But using the wrong filter certainly leads to a copious number of; inconsistencies, anomalies, contradictions, unknowns, mysteries and a need to fill in missing information with speculations and assertions which are not data or evidence.

Personally, I have tested the Genesis account and found that what I see and what I expect to find in the historical and archaeological record better fit that filter.

Once one of the two above named paradigms are accepted however it is very difficult to see or even to consider evidence that conflicts with the paradigm. This is true whether you believe in evolution or in Creation ex Nihilo by God. This relative inability to see or except or even to evaluate evidence that might appear to conflict with your adopted paradigm afflicts even those among who are quite certain that we are actually open-minded and objective.

This doesn’t negate the fact that one of the referenced paradigms-is actually true-and that the selection of one or the other filter for your own life doesn’t have consequences.

When news outlets announced that James Cameron and others had allegedly found “the Jesus Tomb” it did not cause any consternation among us Christians who paid zero attention to the story. We waited for secular archaeologists to refute it-which they have. When news conferences, books and television series were coordinated around the announcement of an alleged human ancestor—which was going to change everything- exploded on the scene-“Ida”, I personally did not do a spit-take.

By the end of that year “Ida” was not even on lists for the top ten science stories of that year. “She/it had been debunked. I have never seen “evidence for evolution”. I’ve never seen a transitional fossil.

I accept that evolutionists have not seen evidence for the theory of creation either. However, shouldn’t just a single ancient artifact indicating that humans and dinosaurs lived together falsify the notion that we missed each other by 65 million years? In the 1920’s the World’s foremost archaeologist discovered human and dinosaur bones together in Mongolia and he found that they had fashioned jewelry by boring the shells and making ornaments of dinosaur eggs. (See our article: Dinosaur and Human Interactions in Our Times; the New York Times, LA Times, Chicago Sun Times ect)

Do I need to tell you that you need to use “fresh” un-fossilized dinosaur eggs for this purpose? Archaeologist, Roy Chapman Andrews, went on to become the director of the American Museum of Natural History-so how come so many evolutionists ask where there has ever been such evidence (of co-existence) ever in the world?

Let’s test my paradigm theory. Note the middle, right photograph compilation; the one with the three views of an archaeological object above. Once you read the museum’s description of the object, or perhaps prior thereto your filter goes into action.

“Colima Horned Toad. Protoclassic, ca. 100 B.C. to A.D. 250. Height: 5.3 in. (13.5 cm.); Length: 10.5 in. (26.7 cm.). Price: $2,250

There are four rows of spiked protrusions in high relief along the length of the body, and one row across the head, thirty in all. Coffee bean eyes, recessed nostrils, open mouth, spout as tail, and short legs create a reptile that seems pleased with his surroundings. Provenance: From a Riverside County, California Collection.”

Our article can be found Here.

Now, if you are a creationist, willing to believe that dinosaurs and man co-existed, you may see that the photo comparison with an armored dinosaur is very apt. If however, you are using the evolution filter it will be a toad. There is no way that it could be a dinosaur because you believe that they missed each other by 65 million years.

This is then, for you a toad, a fake or etc.. Paradigm preserved. Forehead unfurrowed. In the same way, of course, I have trouble accepting this as a toad because I see the dinosaur explanation as a better fit-however, I do believe that the toad explanation is a possibility.


These filters exist and work to protect us from having to flip flop our beliefs and our view on the world every five or six minutes.

Just above, left is another very interesting ancient artifact. This artifact is described by the curator as a “lion”. I picked this one out because I want to get into the heart of this post and talk about another group of famous lions. Most people would be perfectly willing to see this depiction as a “lion”.

“Early Islamic glass lion (zoomorphic balsamarium). 7th-9th century AD”.

Certainly no one would object to “mythological”, or “unknown animal” or even; “stylized lion figure”. One must make a decision and call it something. However, if you accept the evolutionary filter it is possible that a whole group of potential candidates can’t even be considered. What if the true depiction here is of some type of crested dinosaur? In the photo we’ve compared it to Olorotitan, a European, crested hadrosaur (top, right of photo) and to Amargasaurus, a crested sauropod. Fossils of the specific species have been found in Argentina.

My point is that creationists can consider the entire creation when examining an artifact but those using the other filter cannot—and maintain their paradigm-al purity. They must describe every artifact in terms of the ruling evolutionary paradigm or face the penalties that the scientific/academic/media culture will mete out. Can you imagine someone from Academia describing this as either a badly composed lion or possibly a sauropod like Amargasaurus?

So now let’s talk about some other depictions labeled “lions” by the archaeological establishment.

The Terrace of Lions at Delos


“The island of Delos, recognized as the birthplace of the god Apollo, has been a sacred area used for various reasons throughout history. Today it is one of the most important archaeological sites in Greece and is covered in excavations, one of which is the famous Terrace of the Lions. This terrace was erected and dedicated to Apollo by the people of Naxos just before 600 BCE.

The terrace consisted of a row of nine to twelve marble carved lions that faced eastward towards the Sacred Lake of Delos along the Sacred Way from Skardana Bay to the temples. The lions, with their mouths open as if roaring or snarling, were both meant to guard the sanctuaries and to inspire a feeling of divine fear among the worshippers. The way in which they were positioned is similar to the way sphinxes were set up along avenues in ancient Egypt.

Today, only five of the original lions remain with remnants of three others and the headless body of another has been transported and put over the main gate of a Venetian arsenal.” Biers, William R. The Archaeology of Greece. Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1996. Whitley, James. The Archaeology of Ancient Greece. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2001.

“The island of Delos near Mykonos, near the centre of the Cyclades archipelago, is one of the most important mythological, historical and archaeological sites in Greece. The excavations in the island are among the most extensive in the Mediterranean; ongoing work takes place under the direction of the French School at Athens and many of the artifacts found are on display at the Archaeological Museum of Delos and the National Archaeological Museum of Athens.”

Photo:Naxian Lions held at the Museum at Delos are less damaged.


Question? Are these in fact, lions? If they are lions, they are surely “stylized lions” because their proportions are incorrect. Their front legs are too long. They have three fingers paws. Their bodies are too long. This from a culture that provides us many examples of museum level, realistic depictions of lions and other animals. If these are lions built to “guard” the sanctuaries why aren’t they more self-evidently and accurately sculpted; lions?

Could they depict some other animal? Are they mythological?

Prior to trying to answer that, we switch to a more recent crypto-zoological mystery; the Nandi Bear of Kenya for reasons which I hope to make clear.

The Nandi Bear and Chalicotherium


“The Nandi Bear, also known as Ngoloko, is a cryptid, or unconfirmed animal, reported to live in Africa. It takes its name from the Nandi people who live in western Kenya, near where the Nandi Bear is reported as living.

Frank W. Lane wrote, “What the Abominable Snowman is to Asia, or the great Sea Serpent is to the oceans, the Nandi Bear is to Africa. It is one of the most notorious of those legendary beasts which have, so far, eluded capture and the collector’s rifle.

…Descriptions of the Nandi Bear are of a ferocious, powerfully built carnivore with high front shoulders (over four feet tall) and a sloping back; somewhat similar to a hyena. Some have speculated that Nandi Bears are in fact a misidentified hyena or a surviving Ice Age giant hyena: Karl Shuker states that a surviving short-faced hyena Pachycrocuta brevirostris,extinct ca. 500,000 years before present, would “explain these cases very satisfactorily.”

Other than the Atlas Bear (extinct by the 1800s), no bears are known to be native to Africa, besides those of the prehistoric genera Agriotherium and Indarctos, which died out 4.4 million years ago. Louis Leakey suggested that Nandi Bear descriptions matched that of the extinct Chalicotherium, though chalicotheres were herbivores.

The Nandi people call it Kerit. Local legend holds that it only eats the brain of its victims. Nandi Bears were regularly reported in Kenya throughout the 19th century and early 20th century. Bernard Heuvelmans’s On the Track of Unknown Animals and Karl Shuker’s In Search of Prehistoric Survivors provide the most extensive chronicles of Nandi bear sightings in print.”


A syndicated news article appearing Mansfield News of January 6, 1924 reported that a very large fresh, fragment of unfossilized claw of chalicotherium had been discovered at Bunyoro, Uganda ( Central Africa) and that the thought to be extinct chalicotherium might be very much still alive.

In fact, Zoologists were making a connection between the stories the Nandi peoples had been telling of a fearsome, man killing, brain eating deadly night creature they called “Gereit” might exist and was in fact, chalicotherium. The drawing above right, is from that 1924 article and is a depiction of chalicotherium.

“Chalicotherium, genus of extinct perissodactyls, the order including the horse and rhinoceros. Fossil remains of the genus are common in deposits of Asia, Europe, and Africa from the Miocene Epoch (23 to 5.3 million years ago). The genus persisted into the following Pliocene Epoch, and remains of a related genus, Moropus, are found in North America.


Chalicotherium and its relatives, collectively known as the chalicotheres, ( we’re not locking down on the genus) were very unusual in appearance and structure. In overall appearance the body and slim skull were horse like. The front limbs were longer than the hind limbs, and the back sloped downward. The teeth were distinctive in structure and unhorse like. The feet were quite distinctive.

There were no hooves; instead, each of the three toes on each foot terminated in a strongly developed claw. It is probable that the development of claws was related to the feeding habits of the animal. Chalicotherium may have browsed on branches of trees, pulling them down with the front claws; the claws may also have been employed to dig up roots and tubers.”…Encyclopedia Britannica

The Crux: is the Nandi Bear a Chalicotherium? And What of the Lions of the Terrace at Delos?

Photo: Left, drawing of the Nandi bear from eyewitness accounts and Right, a frontal view of one of the Terrace of Lions, “lions”.

The Chalicotherium is supposed to have gone extinct from 5-7 million years ago. The chalicotherium has been forth as a possible ID for the Nandi bear primarily because the chalicotherium is also known for having much longer front legs than back legs and to have claws as some eyewitness accounts of the Nandi bear have described it.

The Nandi bear is also a cryptid whose description fits no known, living animal so the late survival of some animal thought to have been prehistoric are put forward as potential suspects. Hyenadon is another animal thought to have been prehistoric that has also been put forth as a potential suspect for the same reasons; high front shoulders, long front legs and a sloping back.

The chalicotherium ID is interesting in that this animal also has very unusual feet and claws which set him apart.

Photo:Comparison of admittedly carefully selected chalicotherium depiction inserted into old photo of Naxian (Terrace of Lions) Lion at Delos.


I came across the Terrace of Lions of Delos quite by accident while investigationg some other matter and was struck by how un-lion-like the lions were. They are magnificent animals to be sure but not like any lions I’ve ever seen. Could they be depictions of real creatures-who were not lions?

I did a quick Google search for prehistoric animals with long front legs and immediately was taken to articles about chalicotherium. Articles about chalicotherium also eventually led to articles concerning modern day speculation by cryptozoologists that chalicotherium was a potential match for the Nandi bear, a cryptid that I was unaware of.

The photo at the top of this section shows a very common drawing of the Nandi bear (of unknown source) along with a frontal photo of one of the lions of the Terrace of Lions. This is interesting because as far as I know no one has ever speculated that the “lions” of the Terrace of Lions has anything to do with either the Nandi bear or with chalicotherium. So is this visual similarity (if your filters aren’t preventing you from seeing it or mine forcing me to) just a coincidence?

Chalicotheres are usually depicted as thick, slow and sloth-like and not as fast, relatively slim and dangerous as the lions of Delos seem to appear.

Photo:Comparison of the skeleton of chalicotherium with a Naxian “lion” from the Delos Museum. Note that the face of the Naxian lion shown here has been worn down by weathering and age..


We know from articles about dinosaur depictions that scientists and artists are only guessing when they depict dinosaurs how a dinosaur looks just from their fossils alone.

We also remember that last year a scientific journal reported that scientists now believe that due to an error in a formula they have been using that they have overestimated the size of some dinosaurs by as much as 33% to 50%. The size of their bones are known it was the amount of meat the artists were throwing on the bone that is in question. This suggests that certain dinosaurs were depicted as much bulkier animals than they actually were. Could this be true of chalicotherium?

When artists or illustrators depict known animals the variety of the depictions, the form, the poses can be infinite because the real creature can appear in infinite poses and can be seen from infinite angles.

This not the case with unknown creatures. Inevitably, once a depiction of an animal is made (a guess) all other depictions take the shape of the reference depiction (or first few) and there becomes a limited view of the shape of the creature and even the poses that the animal is shown in. This group think about the look of an unknown creature appears to be inevitable. A radical departure from the consensus view of the creature won’t even be recognized as a depiction of said creature. Ironically an ancient depiction by an eyewitness to the living creature might be rejected because it does not look like the modern, consensus depiction.

Chalicotherium has three toes on each foot ending in claws. Still, the front and back feet are completely different from each other which may provide us some ID possibilities. Are there Nandi bear descriptions of three-toed feet? (By the way lions have five toes in front and four on their back feet).

Here is an antique, eyewitness account of an encounter with the Nandi bear:

“…the whole tent rocked; the pole to which Mbwambi was tied flew out and let down the ridge-pole, enveloping me in flapping canvas. At the same moment the most awful howl I have ever heard split the night. The sheer demoniac horror of it froze me still…I heard my pi-dog yelp just once. There was a crashing of branches in the bush, and then thud, thud, thud, of some huge beast making off. But that howl! I have heard half a dozen lions roaring in a stampede-chorus not twenty yards away; I have heard a maddened cow-elephant trumpeting; I have heard a trapped leopard make the silent night miles a rocking agony with screaming, snarling roars. But never have I heard, nor do I wish to hear again, such a howl as that of the chimiset. A trail of red spots on the sand showed where my pi-dog had gone. Beside that trail were huge footprints, four times as big as a man’s, showing the imprint of three huge clawed toes, with trefoil marks like a lion’s pad where the sole of the foot pressed down. But no lion ever boasted such a paw as that of the monster which had made that terrifying spoor.” Karl Shuker’s Blog

The Nandi bear has been described as having five or six toes in various accounts over the last century as well. I believe that Dale Drinnon who has written extensively on the Nandi bear postulates that the six toed account is assumed to have been where the back feet stepped into an existing three-toed front track.

Various descriptions noted that the animal liked to sit back on its haunches, described it as bear-like (hence the name) having large feet and as being brown in color.

Photo: The interesting foot of the Naxian lion from the Delos Museum compared with the interesting rear foot of the chalicotherium.


Regarding the lions of Delos again; it can be clearly seen from the less damaged statues inside the museum that the lions have three toes on the front feet and very long rear feet, also with three long claws. This superficially at least matches the front feet and rear feet of chalicotherium.

We’ve shown here additional photographs comparing the feet of chalicotherium with those on the Delos lions-both front and rear as well as a number of photographs comparing the physiology, including the long front legs and sloping back.

Photo:A comparison of the three clawed front foot of chalicotherium with the front feet of the Delos, Naxian Lion.


I’ve gone back to look at the actual chalicotherium skeleton to see if a depiction of the living creature as long, slim bodied with a sloping back would also have been a realistic way to depict the creature notwithstanding all the thousands of versions of fat chalicos.

I’ve concluded that the skeleton does lend itself to the Delos, Terrace of Lions, chalicotherium which has closely matching front and back feet, the long front legs and the sloping back of the fossil chalicotherium. (See my admittedly unscientific juxtapostion photo above left.) Even the long hair (mane) of the statues fails to accurately depict the mane of a lion and does remind me of the long hair on certain sloths.

It appears that there is reason to connect the chalicotherium; a creature that supposedly became extinct 5-7 million years ago to the Naxian Lions at Delos. There appears to be some evidence that there is a connection between the Nandi bear of Kenya and Central Africa and the chalicotherium. The elongated bodies of the Naxian lions could be a match for the elongated bodies, and unusual feet of the chalicotherium which could aide in an affirmative identification and prove that chalicotherium was a “late survivor” and could even still be alive.

One More Mystery; Are They Telling the Truth About this Great Monument-or are They Still Lion? Filters On?


Sigiriya (Lion’s rock) Sri Lnkan Mega Site

“In 1831 Major Jonathan Forbes of the 78th Highlanders of the British army, while returning on horseback from a trip to Pollonnuruwa, came across the “bush covered summit of Sigiriya”. Sigiriya came to the attention of antiquarians and, later, archaeologists. Archaeological work at Sigiriya began on a small scale in the 1890s. H.C.P. Bell was the first archaeologist to conduct extensive research on Sigiriya. The Cultural Triangle Project, launched by the Government of Sri Lanka, focused its attention on Sigiriya in 1982. Archaeological work began on the entire city for the first time under this project. There was a sculpted lion’s head above the legs and paws flanking the entrance, but the head broke down many years ago”….Wikipedia
Sigiriya consists of an ancient castle built by King Kasiappan during the 5th century. The Sigiriya site has the remains of an upper palace sited on the flat top of the rock, a mid-level terrace that includes the Lion Gate and the mirror wall with its frescoes, the lower palace that clings to the slopes below the rock, and the moats, walls, and gardens that extend for some hundreds of metres out from the base of the rock.

The site is both a palace and a fortress. Despite its age, the splendor of the palace still furnishes a stunning insight into the ingenuity and creativity of its builders. The upper palace on the top of the rock includes cisterns cut into the rock that still retain water. The moats and walls that surround the lower palace are still exquisitely beautiful.

During Kassapa’s reign in the 5th century AD, a massive, 60-foot lion was chiseled out of the rock. The steps which continued up to the royal palace started at the lion’s feet, wrapped around his body and eventually entered his mouth. Today, all that remain are the paws, but they give a good idea of the statue’s scale. It’s hard to appreciate how impressive it must have been 1500 years ago. It would be impressive now.

The final flight of stairs, hugging tightly to the stone wall, is not for those who suffer from vertigo…Great Photos as the site of srilanka for 91days.com

Here is the mystery; the lion’s head has fallen down and that years ago. One of the most famous parts of the entire sight is the gigantic “lion’s Paws that begin the assent to the next level. But the paws rendered in great detail, are of a creature with three claws on each foot. Lions have five total claws on each front foot although one claw is a “thumb” that usually does not show in a foot print.


So, did someone take the time and input the engineering to construct a megalithic structure featuring a lion only to get the detail concerning the number of claws wrong? I’m even more amazed that no one seems to be questioning whether or not these are meant to be lion’s paws. People seem content just to accept the ID and to move on to the other incredible features of the site.

At least cryptozoologists ought to be asking about the three-clawed lion–if not biologists.

Seriously, is it even reasonable to suppose that the people who built this great monument intended it to represent a three toed lion? Even beyond the number of claws, go google lion claws, view the images and you will note that notwithstanding the actual number of claws–they are nothing like the claws of a lion. What creature, perhaps lion-like in demeanor could be confused with a depiction of a lion- and have three sharp claws on its front feet?

Well, certain dinosaurs might fit the bill–and of course there is the Naxian lion come chalicotherium….

–Comments to: s8intcom@comcast.net

Encode Project Proves that Materialists Had Gotten Ignorance Down to a Science; Junk DNA is No More!

Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Science, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Oct 05 2012


By Chris Parker Copyright 2012

The National Human Genome Research Institute (NHGRI) launched a public research consortium named ENCODE, the Encyclopedia Of DNA Elements, in September 2003, to carry out a project to identify all functional elements in the human genome sequence. Recently they announced some science shaking results.

Back Story

“Ignorance is bliss” the saying goes and many who promote or adhere to today’s scientific paradigms are in the position to best report whether or not this saying is true. I’m not using the word “ignorance” in a pejorative sense but rather in the sense of Webster’s “a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge).

Finding oneself in the state of being uninformed is common to most of us in some aspects of our lives but deciding to build up an area of science or to make scientific assertions built upon the foundation of one’s own ignorance is a mistake that’s likely to be made manifest once that ignorance is dispelled with a bit of the light of actual knowledge.

As an example, for years scientists did not know what the function was for a number of organs or structures in the human body. They could have said “we do not know what the function of this particular organ or part in the body is”. What they did instead was to build on the evolution myth by tying their ignorance about the human body into “scientific knowledge” claiming that these “vestigial organs or structures” were leftovers from the evolutionary past-which had lost their functions. Eventually, other scientists were able to discover important functions for each of these “vestigial” organs and today, arguably, none exist.

Materialists and strict evolutionists believe that there is only matter and energy in the universe and that somehow that matter and energy was able to organize itself into planets, comets, stars and life. They don’t believe in spirit, such as the souls of man or in God who is Spirit because such can’t be scientifically quantified. There is however another sphere that exists apart from matter and energy that even the materialists have to admit is real. This sphere is called information.

Information exists and in fact is the basis of life itself. Information is non-material and exists apart from any method or material used to convey it. Information exists in copious amounts in the cells of everything living. This information, DNA, is a language which the living cell can read, understand and “obey”. This information provides the instructions for every facet of life.

“The information in DNA is stored as a code made up of four chemical bases: adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C), and thymine (T). Human DNA consists of about 3 billion bases, and more than 99 percent of those bases are the same in all people. The order, or sequence, of these bases determines the information available for building and maintaining an organism, similar to the way in which letters of the alphabet appear in a certain order to form words and sentences.”..NIH

Information and language come from a mind; it comes from intelligence. DNA is such a language.

The “technology” conveyed through the language DNA is infinitely above any technology of mankind. The fact that this information could have only come from a superior intelligence should be obvious; whoever placed the language in the cells of everything living first had to have stupendous and incredible knowledge in order to implant it into all life.

If materialists and evolutionists gave themselves a moment to reflect they would realize that DNA is proof that God exists and so they refuse to reflect-and instead apparently spend their time trying to create counter arguments to the obvious.

Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft said :

“DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created.”
Bill Gates, The Road Ahead .

All of Gates far less complicated software codes had creators.

Anyone who was honestly considering whether or not God exists had no alternative but to consider DNA absolute proof of a Creator. The smallest cell of bacteria living requires to much information to have been formed by chance and that information is on a level well above anything man has concieved or built.

As I.L. Cohen, Mathematician and researcher said:

“At that moment, when the DNA/RNA system became understood, the debate between Evolutionists and Creationists should have come to a screeching halt”……. I.L. Cohen, Researcher and Mathematician; Member NY Academy of Sciences; Officer of the Archaeological Inst. of America; “Darwin Was Wrong – A Study in Probabilities”; New Research Publications, 1984, p. 4

There is a small portion of the human genome that codes for proteins—around 2%. This area has been a central focus on gene studies. The function of the larger portion of the genome that does not code for protein has been a mystery. Materialists seized upon areas of the genome that were not as well understood and declared these areas “junk dna”. Being ignorant of the function of these areas, they argued that they were evolutionary junk, left over from eons of evolutionary activity.

Francis Collins, at one time the Director of the Human Genome Project said the following regarding materialist scientists using their own scientific ignorance as a basis for building on the current paradigm in science:

“There were long stretches of DNA in between genes that didn’t seem to be doing very much; some even referred to these as “junk DNA,” though a certain amount of hubris was required for anyone to call any part of the genome “junk,” given our level of ignorance.”
Francis S. Collins, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief

Naturally, Materialists Ignored Collins’ Hubris Warnings and Those of Creationists

The term “Junk DNA” coined by Susumu Ohnoover 40 years ago is quite obviously a pejorative term intended to suggest lack of design and thus; lack of a Designer-God. A typical evolutionist challenge to creationists have typically gone something like this:

“Anti-evolutionists: can you explain why God would make “junk” DNA?

A good portion of our genetic code has no apparent purpose … that is until you account for millions if not billions of mutations that no longer have a phenotype in modern humans.”…Evolutionist, Anonymous

Richard Dawkins, the world’s preeminent Atheist said the following with unconcealed sarcasm:


“Once again, creationists might spend some earnest time speculating on why the Creator should bother to litter genomes with untranslated pseudogenes and junk tandem repeat DNA.” (Dawkins: The Information Challenge)

…it is a remarkable fact that the greater part (95 percent in the case of humans) of the genome might as well not be there, for all the difference it makes.* The Greatest Show on Earth”

Although Encode wasn’t about “pseudogenes” there is increasing evidence that they have until now undiscovered function as well; Dawkins double downed and tripled down with this quote from “The Greatest Show on Earth”

“What pseudogenes are useful for is embarrassing creationists. It stretches even their creative ingenuity to make a convincing reason why an intelligent designer should have created a pseudogene — a gene that does absolutely nothing and gives every appearance of being a superannuated version of a gene that used to do something — unless he was deliberately setting out to fool us.”

Dawkins Was Wrong: The Encode Findings

ENCODE Project Writes Eulogy for Junk DNA, ScienceMag.org–September 2012 by Elizabeth Pennisi

“This week, 30 research papers, including six in Nature and additional papers published online by Science, sound the death knell for the idea that our DNA is mostly littered with useless bases. A decade-long project, the Encyclopedia of DNA Elements (ENCODE), has found that 80% of the human genome serves some purpose, biochemically speaking. Beyond defining proteins, the DNA bases highlighted by ENCODE specify landing spots for proteins that influence gene activity, strands of RNA with myriad roles, or simply places where chemical modifications serve to silence stretches of our chromosomes”

Breakthrough Study Overturns Theory of ‘Junk DNA’ in Genome-Guardian UK

“Long stretches of DNA previously dismissed as “junk” are in fact crucial to the way our genome works, an international team of researchers said on Wednesday……

For years, the vast stretches of DNA between our 20,000 or so protein-coding genes – more than 98% of the genetic sequence inside each of our cells – was written off as “junk” DNA. Already falling out of favour in recent years, this concept will now, with Encode’s work, be consigned to the history books”

Junk DNA, In the Beginning.org
Les Sherlock, Sept 2012

“Well, now it is the evolutionists who are embarrassed – or certainly should be. For 40 years, ever since Susumu Ohno introduced the term in 1972, they have been waving ‘junk DNA’ in the face of creationists, asking why their Creator-God would have produced DNA with only 5% that had any function. Now they know, or are beginning to find out, that it wasn’t that it was without function, but simply that they knew too little about it to be aware of what it did. In fact this mirrors exactly the blunder they made 100 years ago or so, when they claimed over 100 human organs were vestigial: remnants of our evolutionary past that were no longer functional. They were wrong with vestigial organs 100 years ago, and they have been wrong for the past 40 years with junk DNA. Will they never learn?”

Bits of Mystery DNA, Far From ‘Junk,’ Play Crucial Role-The New York Times 9/6/2012
By GINA KOLATA

“Now scientists have discovered a vital clue to unraveling these riddles. The human genome is packed with at least four million gene switches that reside in bits of DNA that once were dismissed as “junk” but that turn out to play critical roles in controlling how cells, organs and other tissues behave. The discovery, considered a major medical and scientific breakthrough, has enormous implications for human health because many complex diseases appear to be caused by tiny changes in hundreds of gene switches.

The findings, which are the fruit of an immense federal project involving 440 scientists from 32 laboratories around the world, will have immediate applications for understanding how alterations in the non-gene parts of DNA contribute to human diseases, which may in turn lead to new drugs. They can also help explain how the environment can affect disease risk. In the case of identical twins, small changes in environmental exposure can slightly alter gene switches, with the result that one twin gets a disease and the other does not.

As scientists delved into the “junk” — parts of the DNA that are not actual genes containing instructions for proteins — they discovered a complex system that controls genes. At least 80 percent of this DNA is active and needed.”

Monkey’s Uncle?

Evolutionists have trumpeted the similarity of the chimpanzee genome to that of humans, claiming that since the chimpanzee DNA profile matched ours up to 98% (debated number) that this was proof of evolution. However, the 98% number related to the 2% of the respective genomes that code for protein.

Given that, the Encode Project findings indicate that the vast majority of the two genomes are totally unrelated. In fact the extreme differences between the two species non coding DNA regions is too large to have occurred in the period alleged to have existed between the supposed evolution of chimps and man.

The Conclusion of it All

William Dembski sums up both the reasons materialists have for designating portions of the genome “junk” and why finding so much function in the genome tends to eliminate the possibility for evolutionary explanations to be correct.

“design is not a science stopper. Indeed, design can foster inquiry where traditional evolutionary approaches obstruct it. Consider the term “junk DNA.” Implicit in this term is the view that because the genome of an organism has been cobbled together through a long, undirected evolutionary process, the genome is a patchwork of which only limited portions are essential to the organism.

Thus on an evolutionary view we expect a lot of useless DNA.

If, on the other hand, organisms are designed, we expect DNA, as much as possible, to exhibit function. And indeed, the most recent findings suggest that designating DNA as “junk” merely cloaks our current lack of knowledge about function”….Dembski 1998

So far, the Encode Project and scientists working in this area have found function for only 80% of the genome.

It would now betray a certain, stubborn, anti scientific ignorance to believe function won’t be found for the entire DNA code-if the world stands.

See Also: Et tu, Pseudogenes? Another Type of “Junk” DNA Betrays Darwinian Predictions

Crouching Dragon, Hidden Dinosaurs Part 2- Exit the Dragon; Enter the Dinosaur. Why Dinosaurs are Not Extinct-In Ancient Art Museums Around the World

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jul 09 2012


Story Below–Photo: “Arhats (holy men) Ding Yunpeng. Ming dynasty, 1368 – 1644 B..C. Red and color on paper.” Shanghai Museum-

“Behold now, behemoth, which I made as well as thee; He eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, And his force is in the muscles of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: The sinews of his thighs are knit together. His bones are as tubes of brass; His limbs are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of God….. Job 40

“So God created the Great Dragons” …Genesis 1:21 The Latin Vulgate; 5th Century

 

by Chris Parker Copyright July 2012 by Chris Parker and s8int.com
Part II Prologue

Return to PART I

“One thing on which both creationists and evolutionists agree is that dinosaurs make marvelous teaching tools. Rare is the adult—and even more rare is the child—who does not have a keen interest in dinosaurs.

These magnificent beasts with the polysyllabic names capture our attention as we fixate on their massive size, their lizard-like skin, or the terror they were apparently able to create as they roamed the Earth. From kindergarten through graduate school, dinosaurs often are used as a tool to indoctrinate students regarding the “fact” of organic evolution.

In most public school, college, and university settings, when dinosaurs are discussed, it is in the context of their evolutionary origin, development, and extinction. Students are told that these wondrous animals evolved from some ancient reptile into what we now know as birds. In such a setting, it is commonplace to use the dinosaurs to instruct simultaneously on the ancient nature of the Earth and/or Universe.” ..www.apologeticspress.org/

Christians and other man/dinosaur believers often haven’t organized their pro dinosaur and man beliefs, explanations and/or theories in such a way as to affirmatively deal with the current scientific paradigm’s onslaught. There is an impressive amount of intellectual firepower directed against anyone who would believe in the historical coexistence of man and dragon/dinosaur. So much so that going up against it is a true David vs Goliath struggle.

There is however, ample evidence in the art and history of ancient civilizations that support the truth which most people are ignorant of. It’s helpful to remember that David won his struggle and Goliath lost his head.

Enter the Dinosaur

Last month, (June 2012) a study whose results were published in the journal Nature suggests that despite long held scientific belief to the contrary, dinosaurs were warm blooded. “Researchers in Spain and Norway reported that they had found tree-like growth rings on the bones of mammals, a feature that until now was thought to be limited to cold-blooded creatures”.

They also found that dinosaurs must have had a high metabolic rate in order to grow to their sometimes great size. Dinosaurs are thought to be reptiles and; reptiles by definition are cold-blooded.

In the July 2010 issue of the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology John Scannella and Jack Horner of the Museum of the Rockies published a study that did away with Triceratops, Draconex, Stygimoloch, and nanotyrannus, describing them as simply juvenile versions of Torosaurus, Pachycephalosaurs and tyrannosaurus whose skulls have simply changed as they aged.

As we mentioned in Part 1 of this article, a June 2009 article in LiveScience indicated that scientists had overestimated the weight and size of dinosaurs by as much as 1/2 to 1/3. As an example an Apatosaurus previously thought to weigh 42 tons is now thought to have weighed “only” 20 tons.

A Discover Magazine article in 2000 confirms that much of what we think dinosaurs looked like is pure speculation on the part of illustrators and paleontologists. No one is really sure what they looked like.

Guess what? If you don’t know anything about dinosaurs you’re practically an expert. This lack of real knowledge about dinosaurs is important as we evaluate the evidence for or against dinosaur depictions in the art of ancient peoples.

Exit the Dragon

Photo: Darwin Hunts Dinosaur from the Time of Christ-to the Death? Palestrina Mosaic Dinosaur

As a self described cryptozooarchaeologist, I have to admit that I am not out standing in my field. In fact, the evidence I search for is not out in the fields. Rather it is in old books, museum collections, libraries and in internet museum databases. I’ll continue to provide some evidence here in Part 2 of this article that; dinosaurs and man lived contemporaneously, that this evidence exists in the art and history of most ancient cultures, and that modern science has hidden or ignored this evidence in a number of both overt and covert ways.

Prior to 1841 when Sir Richard Owen coined the term “dinosauria” to describe a class of gigantic, reptile-like animals whose fossils were then being discovered and classified every culture had a name for these animals. The Bible and other historical texts and authors called them dragons (or their own local words). When Darwin published the “Origin of the Species” in 1859 he of course had no idea that the actual or virtual extinction of these animals would be used as one of the major standard bearers of the organic evolution theory.

However, the art and artifacts of ancient people proves that as late as the publication of his book other cultures were still recording evidence of the existence of these animals in their times. The accompanying graphic shows Darwin hunting a dinosaur that must have existed at the time of Christ; a dinosaur lifted from the 1st century Roman Mosaic known as the Palestrina Mosaic.

 

Crouching Dragon, Hidden Dinosaurs Part II

PART 1 of THIS ARTICLE

If one looks at the art and artifacts particularly from China and from South America, their artifacts and arts are literally permeated with depictions of “dragons” and serpents. This is true of other ancient cultures but it is especially noteworthy in these two geo cultural locations. In Part 1 we dealt mostly with dragons/dinosaurs from Asia. I want to transition from Asia to the Americas in Part II of this article but it is appropriate to begin in Asia. Here are three (out of many) dragon depictions from Asia that in fact possibly depict dinosaurs.

Ancient Chinese Bipedal Dragon from the Shanghai Museum

In October of 2010 the Museo del Oro del Banco de la Republica in Bogata, Columbia held a temporary exhibition of Chinese art from the Shanghai Museum entitled: Emperial Dragons from the Collection of the Shanghai Museum”. The exhibition contained 300 works of art related to dragon imagery representing a period it was said of over 5,000 years.

The painting at the top of this article and reproduced here was a part of that collection. The description of the work is: “Arhats (holy men) Ding Yunpeng. Ming dynasty, 1368 – 1644 B..C. Red and color on paper.”

It is a beautiful piece that features a perhaps “typical” Chinese dragon, a landscape and some men described as “holy”. There are however, several very interesting things about this particular dragon. For one thing, it appears to be bipedal. Now how or why would the Chinese depict a mythical dragon as bipedal? There were in fact many bipedal dinosaurs but science tells us that they all became extinct more than 65 million years ago.

At the very least it’s a big coincidence that artists living three to four thousand years ago would conceive of a four legged, bipedal dragon without ever having seen a four legged, bipedal dinosaur.

Another curious thing about this “dragon” is that the artist for some reason has made it quite clear that this dragon has three clawed “hands” as well as three clawed feet. I have a high resolution version of this piece of art and the claws are distinctive. The final thing of note is that this dragon has a head crest.

I made the point in Part 1 that it is curious that virtually every ancient culture depicted dragons; reptilian, dangerous, large creatures which arguably also fits the description of dinosaurs that they supposedly never saw. I wondered if a crested, bipedal, dinosaur fossil had ever been discovered in China, so I Googled it. I went to images. Google Dinosaur Images

Literally, the first dinosaur that appeared on Google with that description was the Guanlong dinosaur.

This is how Wikipedia described that supposedly millions of years gone dinosaur:


“About 3.0 metres (9.8 ft) long,[1] its fossils were found in the Shishugou Formation dating to about 160 million years ago, in the Oxfordian stage of the Late Jurassic period, 92 million years before its well-known relative Tyrannosaurus.

This bipedal saurischian theropod shared many traits with its descendants, and also had some unusual ones, like a large crest on its head. Unlike later tyrannosaurs, Guanlong had three long fingers on its hands. Guanlong was discovered in the Dzungaria area of China by scientists from George Washington University, and named by Xu Xing in 2006. Guanlong comes from the Chinese words for “crown” and “dragon”, referring to the crest.” Wikipedia

In the graphic above are comparisons of Guanlong with our Han Dynasty “dragon depictions”. Turns out that in addition to being bipedal like our dragon, it had a headcrest and as it turns out, three fingers and three toes just like our dragon. Does this prove that the Han Dynasty depiction is of the Guanlong dinosaur? Not necessarily, but for those who believe that man and dinosaurs lived together this is exactly what one would expect.

It would be difficult for naysayers to explain why a dragon was depicted with morphological features exactly like that of an actual dinosaur who lived it that same geographical area-but science isn’t explaining, it is ignoring.

 

Neolithic Culture Cultural Jade

The object description: “These Photo Galleries were developed from our private collection acquired and privately kept in Hong Kong since 1979. They were uncovered from Neolithic ruins and found their way to the Hong Kong open market since the mainland economy began to open its doors to traders.


These Neolithic Cultural Jades differ from the traditionally collected “burial jades” from the traditional archeological burial sites of Hongshan and Liangchu, discovered in the 1920s and 1930s. Source


Here it is shown in comparison to Yangchuanosaurus. “Yangchuanosaurus is an extinct genus of metriacanthosaurid theropod dinosaur that lived in China during the late Oxfordian (and possibly Kimmeridgian) stage of the Late Jurassic, and was similar in size and appearance to its North American contemporary, Allosaurus.

It hails from the Upper Shaximiao Formation and was the largest predator in a landscape which included the sauropods Mamenchisaurus and Omeisaurus as well as the Stegosaurs Chialingosaurus, Tuojiangosaurus and Chungkingosaurus”…Wikipedia

 

A Pair of Western Han Dynasty Beaulieu Screens Copper Bracket

Descripton of the Artifact:

“Western Han Dynasty. Object is 33.5 cm high and 27.3cm long. The screens on both sides of the barrier under the bracket, the original gilt. Squat in the care seat Broom, proudly curved body Onchocerca, four feet on the synthesis by the two snakes structure on a bearing.

Volumes of the two snakes wrapped around a frog. Frog mouth violent head, trying to break free like. Longkou large sheet of mouth, a rim of the forelegs gripped Long, head stretched forward, as if to escape the invasion of the evil snake get the protection of the Dragon, serene state.


Dragon, snake, frog combination of the three together, is a highly plastic arts, the beauty of antiques. The snake, the frog was a totem of the ancient Yue people, the dragon is one of the four gods worshiped by the Central Plains, the snake wrapped around the frog, dragon stood on the snake to protect the frog tells the story of a legendary totem myths. Now in the possession: Guangzhou Xi Hannan Yue Museum.”


Keeping in mind the Prologue in which we mentioned that the size of many dinosaurs had been exaggerated shouldn’t a fair minded observer consider that this dragon is in fact a depiction of a living Chinese dinosaur during the Han Dynasty period? (206 B.C.–220 A.D.)

Here the Han Dynasty object is compared with Plateosaurus, Dinosaurs related to Plateosaurus have been found in South Africa, North America, and China. Note that Plateosaurus is not depicted with ears. Many ancient culture depictions of these creatures do show them with external ears. Modern science has drawn them as reptiles who often do not have external earflaps. However, as we noted in the Prologue, dinosaurs were probably warm-blooded and possibly not reptiles at all.

 

Dinosaur Depictions at the World’s Oldest Cities

If the Christian/creationist view concerning dinosaurs is correct, then dinosaurs were created by God less than 10,000 years ago and were contemporaneous with man from the beginning. If the evolutionary/current science paradigm is correct and dinosaurs became extinct 65,000,000 years ago, then no evidence of interaction between them should exist and the ubiquitous dragon of many ancient cultures is a mythological, unrelated phenomena.

Golbeki. “Now considered by some to be the oldest civilization in the world is Göbekli Tepe in Turkey. “Göbekli Tepe is the oldest known man-made religious structure. The site, located on a hilltop, contains 20 round structures which had been buried, four of which have been excavated. Each round structure has a diameter of between 10 and 30 meters (30 and 100 ft) and all are decorated with massive, mostly T-shaped, limestone pillars that are the most striking feature of the site.

The limestone slabs were quarried from bedrock pits located around 100 meters (330 ft) from the hilltop, with neolithic workers using flint points to carve the bedrock. The majority of flint tools found at the site are Byblos and Nemrik points. That neolithic people with such primitive flint tools quarried, carved, transported uphill, and erected these massive pillars has astonished the archaeological world, and must have required a staggering amount of manpower and labor……


Many of the pillars are decorated with carved reliefs of animals and of abstract enigmatic pictograms. The pictograms may represent commonly understood sacred symbols, as known from Neolithic cave paintings elsewhere. The reliefs depict lions, bulls, boars, foxes, gazelles, donkeys, snakes and other reptiles, insects, arachnids, and birds, particularly vultures. (At the time the shrine was constructed, the surrounding country was much lusher and capable of sustaining this variety of wildlife, before millennia of settlement and cultivation resulted in the near–Dust Bowl conditions prevailing today.

…..Until excavations began, a complex on this scale was not thought possible for a community so ancient, and with such primitive quarrying tools. The massive sequence of stratification layers suggests several millennia of activity, perhaps reaching back to the Mesolithic”. ….Wikipedia

Wikipedia notes that there were reliefs of “snakes and other reptiles” at Göbekli Tepe. Here are some of the raised reliefs that might indicate that there were “dinosaurs” at one of the oldest archaeological sites ever found.

Tiahuanico. But some say that mysterious Tiahuanico a seaport 2.5 miles above sea level high in the Andes mountains is the world’s oldest city.

“The City of Tiahuanaco is also full of mystery. Lying at a height of some 13,000 feet, it lies on a plateau that looks like the surface of a foreign planet.

The atmospheric pressure is nearly half as low as at sea level and the oxygen content of the air is similarly small. This isolation and altitude makes the very construction of the city all the more remarkable. There is evidence that the city was once a port, having extensive docks positioned right on the earlier shoreline of the now inland waterbed. One of these wharves is big enough to accommodate hundreds of ships.”


According to Incan legends, Tihuanaco was built by a race of giants whose fatherland had been destroyed in a great deluge that had lasted for two months. Many of Tihuanaco’s buildings were constructed of massive finished stones, many tons in weight, that were placed in such a manner that only a people with advanced engineering methods could have designed and transported them.

Again, creationists might expect to discover some evidence that man had some interaction with dragons now called dinosaurs in ancient time and location. Of course, science would expect no such thing.

This ancient animal depiction is from Tihuanaco and is now housed at the National Archaeological Museum of Bolivia. Here is the official description:


A.D. 200-A.D. 1000
Gold Tiwanaku zoomorphic figurines

These dinosaurs appear to be quadruped carnivore’s although today we think of most carnivorous dinosaurs as having been bi-pedal. Some scientists have speculated that certain prosauropods were either carnivores or omnivores. In any case, here apparently is the view of an eyewitness.

 

The Pivot to South America

In 1973 the late Dr. Hendon Harris Jr. Wrote a book entitled ‘The Asiatic Fathers of America” that theorized based on certain ancient Chinese maps that seafaring Chinese reached the Americas repeatedly beginning around 2,200 B.C., and that those ancient Chinese were the ancestors of the “American Indians”.

“His proof centered on a world map he found in an old map book a year earlier in an antique shop in Korea.



Entitled “Everything under Heaven,” the ancient Chinese map not only showed known major land masses such as Asia, Africa, Australia, and Europe, but located China’s fabled Fu Sang—literally “land to the east”—in the region we now know as North and South America”. Epoch Times…

This Colima Culture dragon reminds some of the Naga and other ancient Chinese dragon depictions (Below, right).


Other author’s and Academics have pointed to other evidence of the Ancient Chinese in the Americas including speculation that the ancient, Pre Hispanic and advanced Olmec culture was founded by the Chinese.

One thing is certain, both cultures in the form of their arts certainly showed a strong cultural interest in dragons/slash dinosaurs.


Acambaro Figurines. In 1944 Waldemar Julsrud, a hardware salesman spotted some curious ceramics sticking out of the ground near Acambaro, Mexico on El Toro Mountain.

After examining them, he concluded that they were from an unknown culture. Back in 1923 Julsrud had been the co-discoverer along with Padre Fray Jose Marie Martinez of what came to be known as the Chupicauro culture at an archaeological site only eight miles from El Toro. His discovery of the Chupicauro culture and artifacts which scientists came to believe flourished from 500 B.C. to 500A.D. still stands.

Julsrud paid a local farmer a peso a piece for any whole artifacts that were found at this new location near Acambaro and eventually amassed a collection of over 20,000 unique artifacts which included dinosaurs, Asians, Africans, bearded Caucasians, Polynesians, Egyptian and Sumerian objects and many others. The non-dinosaurian objects in the collection some called the “Museum that seared scientists” were virtually as offensive to the current scientific paradigm as were the dinosaurs. Science has reacted to the collection with a combination of intense indifference or a determination to lable them as fakes- from afar.

Ica Stones In 1966, Peruvian physician Javier Cabrera Darquea was prompted to begin collecting strange stones found near Ica, Peru which his father had also collected back in the 1930’s. These stones of various sizes showed man and dinosaurs interacting but also, telescopes, heart surgery, constellations and many other seemingly out of place and time depictions. Cabrera amassed a collection of over 11,000 of these stones. Like the Acambaro figurines, they also came to be labeled fakes.

Photo:Etching from one of the Ica Stones.

Here we potentially have two of the greatest archeaological discoveries of all time being quickly labeled fakes and then ignored by science in the years since. I personally don’t accept the pronouncement. One thing about faking artifacts; it would only be profitable if they are sold to someone.

Here are three reasons why they are unlikely to be fakes; 1)There are 20,000 unsold Acambaro figurines and over 11,000 Ica Stones. Not a very shrewd way to fake a living is it? 2)There are morphological characteristics on certain of the dinosaurs which were not discovered until many years after the stones were discovered. For instance, at the time of the discovery, Sauropods were not depicted with dermal spines. Stephen Czerkas discovery of dermal spines on sauropods in 1992 gave them a “new look” which had already been depicted on ancient artifacts. 3)The surest way not to sell a faked pre Columbian ancient artifact is to place a dinosaur or an Egyptian on it..

Dr. Requena’s Dinosaurs


Prior to the 1944 and 1966 discoveries of the Acambaro and Ica artifacts, respectively, an actual scientist, an anthropologist named Dr. Rafael Requena who was then affiliated with Academy of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, National Library, National Congress, Central University of Venezuela, discovered his own dinosaur and man artifacts.

I have a signed copy of his book (not to me) detailing the discovery of out of place artifacts at Lago Valencia in Venenzuela and of a new undiscovered ancient civilization there entitled; “Vestigios of Atlantida” (Remnants of Atlantis), published in 1932. I see that used copies of this book are still available for approximately $350.00.

According to the book and news reports about the discoveries, Requena claimed that Venezuela was the cradle of man’s civilization and that the ancient culture interacted with “prehistoric animals”. Among the prehistoric animals named as having been associated with this ancient culture was the diplodocus.

“Evidence that Venezuela was the cradle of civilization is offered in a volume on his archaeological discoveries which is being published by Dr. Rafael Requena, private secretary to President General Gomez. The publication of this book will lift the veil of secrecy which has shrouded Dr. Requena’s discoveries since they were announced briefly a year ago.


Most startling among the relics unearthed by Dr. Requena from the ancient tombs that dot the shores of Lake Valencia are images of pre-historic animals.

Among these, well sculptured in clay and kiln baked, are models of the diplodocus, a four footed monster with a goose-shaped body, surmounted by a dorsal fin, the neck of a giraffe and the jaws of a crocodile; a gliptodante, a squat four-footed beast with a hideous frog shaped head, bulging eyes and two rows of humps along its back; the prehistoric marine turtle and its equally great land-loving brother and carved from stone, the head of a hadrosaurus.

Alongside these relics were discovered the jaw bone of a dinosaur and pieces of the armor plate of the hadrosaurus…” New York Times June 5, 1932.

Dr. Requena’s discoveries were not declared fakes and his career was not ruined. Both the Ica Stones and the Acambaro figures suffered in the eyes of science because they had not been discovered by scientists-or so the said. The links that Requena made with Atlantis may seem crackpot to some today but were not viewed quite that way back in 1932.


Many of the artifacts of the ancient civilization he discovered can still be found on the internet. However, the dinosaurs have simply disappeared.

We do have his book and an opportunity to decide for ourselves whether or not this ancient civilization did in fact interact with dinosaurs.

I do note that even Requena approached the dinosaur angle of his discoveries with some caution. One would think that a discovery of dinosaur art among the remnants of this ancient civilization would have been the absolute focus of the discovery and that there would have been copious photographs of the “prehistoric animals” from every available angle.


Photo:Requena’s suaropod dinosaur from his 1932 book compared to a modern brachiosaurus model.

This was not the case; we do not have close-ups or multiple angles even though it appears that Requena was absolutely convinced that the depictions of dinosaurs were authentic. In fact, the dinosaurs are what convinced Requena that the ancient Venezuelans had to be a very ancient, advanced culture.

The photo above left shows that Requena’s sauropod compares favorably to a modern dinosaur model depicting a brachiosaurus.

Unfortunately, this is the only photographic angle shown in Requena’s book and in magazine articles announcing his discoveries. Clearly the ancient depiction is stylized to some extent. The artifact labeled number 40 in Requena’s book clearly it seems to me depicts a type of armored dinosaur like ankylosaur.


Ankylosauria are a group of herbivorous dinosaurs of the order Ornithischia. It includes the great majority of dinosaurs with armor in the form of bony osteoderms. Ankylosaurs were bulky quadrupeds, with short, powerful limbs. They are first known to have appeared in the early Jurassic Period of China, and persisted until the end of the Cretaceous Period. They have been found on every continent except Africa. …Wikipedia

These creatures supposedly became extinct at least 65 million years ago. The non-club tailed versions are known as nodosaurs although none of those have been reported to be found in South America.


On page 75 of the book Vestigios de la Atlantida are photographs of two “vases” which depict several animal figures. One of those figures is shown on the right. What quadruped has a neck frill like the one shown to the right? In our view, only a ceratopsian dinosaur would have this profile. Unfortunately, this is the only view and resolution that we have.

The case for a ceratopsian dinosaur is bolstered we believe by the fact that Requena says that prehistoric creatures were part of the experience of the Lago Valencia civilization.

There are certainly many types of ceratopsian dinosaurs and many different frill shapes. Shown here (above right) are several modern ceratopsian depictions from as close to the same angle as possible. Ceratopsian dinosaurs have not been found in South America (except for notoceratops) and they also are thought by science to have become extinct over 65 million years ago.


I’m calling the creature shown to the left the baby ceratops. It has a unique skull shape which doesn’t appear to comport with any known animal and along with its visible appendages make a ceratopsian dinosaur a possibility.

Ceratops does mean “horned face” after all. I’m not going to make a federal case out of this ID given the one angle, low relatively low resolution photo but provide a comparison photo for the reader’s amusement.

Metropolitan Museum of Art Horned Dinosaur with Front and Back Detail


Double-Chambered Whistling Bottle, 4th-7th century Ecuador; Bahia, Ceramic

This time we have a detailed, color photo showing the front and back of these creatures in detail. The curator has fallen back on the canard that these are simply lizards or are mythological creatures.

These creatures are tied by the use of ropes to sticks giving them the man dinosaur/interaction prize amont the dinosaurs we have reviewed for this article. Does one tie a mythological creature to a stick? From the Met’s decription:

“Double-chambered bottles were a common vessel form among the Bahia people of coastal Ecuador. The chambers, which were round and squat or tall and slender, as here, were joined at the bottom by a tube and at the top by a strap handle.


A single, narrow spout tops one of the chambers, while the other vessel serves as a base for modeled figurative sculptures.

On this bottle, two fantastic iguana-like creatures sit side by side at the top, their thick, long tails hanging down the side of the container. The iguanas wear necklaces and head crests; long streamers emerge from their open, fanged mouths; their bodies have dorsal crests and winglike elements projecting on the sides. The dull, bumpy surface of the animals, covered with light green pigment, contrasts with the smooth, burnished finish of the red-slipped chambers.

The hollow iguanas function as whistles, their several holes producing a sound when the liquid in the bottle is poured out. Iguanas or dragonlike creatures and serpents are frequent motifs in Bahia art and seem to have played an important role in local mythology.” …..Met Museum


I believe that these animals are related to ceratopsian dinosaurs as well. They have small neck frills and “nose bumps” similar to that of Leptoceratops or Cerasinops or other ceratopsian dinosaurs.

Note that what appears to be a single, horn projecting from their heads is revealed from the backside to be part of their headcrests or neck frills. Also note the armor over the lower body segment.

Sometimes ceratopsian dinosaurs are portrayed with this body split as has been done with the Lepto and the Cerasinops depictions above.


Leptoceratops is from North America.

A creature like Bradysaurus shown to the right with another version of Leptoceratops is another possibility. Bradysaurus is from South Africa. However, it was a pareiasaur which have been discovered on the continent. These are offered as examples of broad dinosaur types that compare favorably to the creatures depicted by the Ecuadorians.

 

Ancient South American Dinosaur Sacrifices?

Lambayeque Culture Toxodon Sacrafice? According to the Gardiner Museum:

“this is an exquisite example of a double-chambered figural bridge-spout whistling bottle of the Lambayeque Culture. It’s a moulded whistling vessel, the front is a square section and is surmounted by an animal , possibly being marked by two attendants, the back body is moulded in the form of a shell with –as you can see a tall tapering spout and a wide strap handle.

The whole item is painted in black, cream and reddish-brown, with areas of scroll, circular and geometric patterns. It’s from the Middle Horizon period, AD 100-300, of the Lambayeque culture of Peru.”

I think that it is entirely possible that this scene instead depicts “priests” readying a toxodon for sacrifice. Toxodons were among the most prolific types of fossils found in South America and supposedly lived down to 16,500 years ago. Coincidentally, Charles Darwin was among the first to collect fossils of this large animal.

From Wikipedia: “Toxodon is an extinct mammal of the late Pliocene and Pleistocene epochs about 2.6 million to 16,500 years ago. It was indigenous to South America, and was probably the most common large-hoofed mammal in South America at the time of its existence.

Toxodon was about 2.7 metres (8.9 ft) in body length, with an estimated weight up to 1500 kg and about 1.5 metres (4.9 ft) high at the shoulder and resembled a heavy rhinoceros, with a short and vaguely hippopotamus-like head.”

I think that this animal is the right size and has the beaked mouth and other features that make toxodon a possible identification for the creature being depicted here. It seems unlikely that this kind of detail and this kind of ritual would be depicted for only a mythological creature. Whatever this cretaure is it is likely a real creature it seems to me.

Chimu Culture Dinosaur Sacrifice? On the left is a Chimu Culture ceramic artifact from between 1100 A.D. to 1400 A.D. The source is the emuseum.mankato.

From: emuseum.mankato “The Chimu civilization lasted from 1100 AD to the late 1400′s AD. The Chimu state was characterized by conquest and expansion periods of the late thirteenth and early fourteenth centuries. At one time, the Chimu empire encompassed 620 square miles. Minchancamon was the greediest and coincidentally the last leader of the Chimu state.

His quest for dominance, built on by his predecessors, resulted in the conquest of the Sican state to the north. In their quest for expansion, the Chimu encountered the Inca to the south.

The Chimu conflict with the Inca began in 1462, and the Inca eventually prevailed. The Inca conquered the Chimu state in 1475 – 1476.

Paleontologists say that man and dinosaurs missed each other by more than 65 million years. For this reason, they cannot accept that any art showing man interacting with a dinosaur is genuine.

If the piece is believed to be genuine, then it follows that whatever is being represented is not a dinosaur-no matter how apparent the resemblance.

Conversely, creationists, or more specifically, we here at s8int.com do believe that dinosaurs co-existed with man in the recent past and that therefore, ancient art will be found which proves that this interaction took place.

For this reason, we are liable to see a “dinosaur” when in fact the animal is actually something less mysterious. We all have to deal with our biases.

I believe that it is reasonable to assert that this Chimu piece shows a man with a rope or a cloth tied around the neck of a juvenile dinosaur, which is either a pet or which is being prepared for sacrifice. We’ve identified the type of dinosaur as possibly a Maiasaura or an Iquanodon, two related dinosaurs. As usual, everyone is encouraged to make up his/her own mind.

 

Conclusion

The truth is; dinosaurs were created at the same time as all other living creatures. They were called dragons in scripture and were so known in most ancient cultures prior to the time that the huge creatures were given the name dinosauria around 1841 and the name dragon was driven by science into the mythological realm.

The ancient art in museums tell a different story however and that information is no longer available only to academics who may be beholden to the current paradigm or who certainly don’t want to go up against it.

At the current time, perhaps the dragon is still crouching and the dinosaur in modern times, still hidden, however, the truth will come out. As the Bible says;

“For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.”….Luke 8

See Also:

Denial Is not Just a River in Egypt; Suppressed Human and Dinosaur Interactions in Nilotic Art

Three Cryptozoological Mysteries

When Really Giant Humans Left Their Imprints on the World

Human and Dinosaur Inner Actions-When Witnesses Got Eaten

No Your Dinosaurs! Who Knows for Certain What Dinosaurs Actually Looked Like? Nobody! Except Perhaps the Eyewitnesses Responsible for the Ancient Dinosaur Art at the Peabody”

The Top 11 Science Stories of 2011 for Christians/Creationists

Church of Darwin, Fin De Siecle, s8int.com, Science, The Flood of Noah, Uncategorized, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jan 11 2012


by Chris Parker

Last year we published The Top 12 Science Stories of 2010 for Christians and Creationists on January 7th so this doesn’t 2011 roundup is not that late after all..

These stories are the ones that strike us as having been the most interesting, the most impactful in terms of the evolution creation debate or because we didn’t want to rename this article the Top 7 Science Stories of 2011 for Christians/Creationists. This year we’ve only selected 11 stories but remember; we’re in a recession.

Our selections are printed here in no particular order.

1)Science Keeps on Marching Backward: Science ‘Walks Back Some Dubious Claims in 2011

In 2009 and 2010 Ardi and Ida were both effectively debunked as human ancestors within six to eight months of their worldwide discovery announcements, setting new records “for scientists had previously thought” reversals.

In terms of past dubious claims, it had taken NASA 11 years to march back from its 1976 alleged alien life on a meteorite discovery. On Friday, March 4th of last year NASA had another opportunity to march science backward with “alien claims”. Nasa scientist Richard Hoover published a peer reviewed article in the Journal “Cosmology” with the claim that that he had found tiny fossils of alien life in the remnants of a meteorite.


This story was published internationally under headlines like: “NASA Scientist Finds ‘Alien Life’ Fossils”. Naturally, the NASA connection seemingly provided some support to the alien claim which was met with excitement-and skepticism.

Hold that thought for a minute before; the rest of the story.

In another area of scientific dubiosity; “Twenty years ago the palaeontological community gasped as geoscientists revealed evidence for the oldest bacterial fossils on the planet.”..naturenews

The evidence here was a piece of rock found in Australia known as the Apex Chert and it contained it was said evidence of the earliest life on earth. Scientists declared that the Apex Chert was 3.5 billion years old, whereas Genesis would set its maximum age at 10,000 years or less. Late last year there was a development re the Apex Chert as described by this headline:

“Whoops! Scientists left red-faced as oldest ‘evidence of life’ turns out to be iron deposits.”

Whoops indeed. And what about all those evolution adherents who had snootily quoted this “fact” to non-evolution believers for twenty years? This ‘scientists had previously thought” item took even longer than the 1976 NASA “discovery” to reverse.

Getting back to NASA scientist Richard Hoover’s “alien life fossils”.

They were announced on a Friday and disavowed by “top scientists in different disciplines”, including NASA by the following Monday, by noon, setting new standards for scientists had previously thought type reversals. No alien fossils and quite probably no bacterial fossils.

Finally there were the international headlines about the “God Particle”. Science it was said was very close to discovering the “God Particle”, which is a major tenet of materialist beliefs about the creation of the universe is a supposed fundamenal particle reponsible for the creation of the mass of the universe’s mass. Two weeks after the banner headlines about the closeness the world of science was to the discovery we learn in less banner headlines that the particle may not exist.

What doesn’t exist any more are the billions of tax dollars that went into the constructiion of the giant CERN particle accellerator in Geneva.

2) A 2011 Gallop poll indicates that 92% of Americans affirm a belief in God. A surprise; Atheists are more likely to live on the East Coast than the West Coast.

Apparently, one of the un-cleverest things that a presidential candidate could utter these days is that they believe that Genesis is the literal story of how the universe was created and that they personally believe that man and dinosaur co-existed. Even the Republican candidates would be hard pressed to say that publically even if they’re trying to win South Carolina.

So, the Atheists and evolutionists must be winning, right? Not so fast.

“A poll released by Gallup yesterday confirmed what a deeply religious America continues to be 92 percent of Americans still say “yes” when asked the basic question “Do you believe in God?” In 1947, this number was 94 percent. Considering the events over the past 60 years, this is a remarkably stable statistic to say the least.

Gallup notes that in particular, the belief in God is high across all subgroups of the population, but there are variances. Women are more likely to believe in God than men. Liberals are less likely to believe than conservatives. Young people are the least likely to believe.

Those with a post-graduate education are less likely to believe than high school or college graduates. Finally, East Coast Americans are the least likely to believe in God, and Southerners are the most, with the West and the Midwest coming in equally in between.

But how do we stack up against other countries? A 2008 Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey reveal that only 1 in 4 of our neighbors up north believe in God. And a 2005 Eurostat poll indicated that the French, perhaps our cultural opposite, had the highest atheism in Europe — 33% responded that they believed in “neither a Spirit, God, or life force.”

Here is the breakdown of the Gallup poll for U.S. adults.”


In concert with these poll findings other recent polls continue to show that Atheists are the most distrusted group in America although Muslims and Scientologists have made up some ground.

Elsewhere:A University of Minnesota Study on “American Attitudes Towards Atheists & Atheism”
Finds that Atheists are Most Despised, Most Distrusted Minority..
The findings indicate that Americans are least likely to vote for an Atheist for President than any other group. What would happen if a Christian acknowledging that he believed in a literal reading of Genesis ran against an Atheist?

3) Darwinists Alarmed at Teachers’ Caution Over Evolution

Jan 29, 2011 — “Creationism” refuses to die in American high schools. Two researchers at the University of Pennsylvania sounded the alarm in Science, with suggestions for what to do about it. The only suggestion off the table was to have debates about the evidence; no, that was completely out of the question: the report was focused on “Defeating Creationism.”

Michael Berkman and Eric Plutzer, professors of political science at U Penn, surveyed a “national representative probability sample” of 926 high school biology teachers about their teaching of evolution. Only about 28% of the respondents consistently teach evolution “unabashedly”.

The rest are either bashful or unabashedly “creationist” when teaching the subject of origins, the survey found. 13% of the teachers “explicitly advocate creationism or intelligent design by spending at least 1 hour of class time presenting it in a positive light (an additional 5% of teachers report that they endorse creationism in passing or when answering student questions).”

This sounds like a very small amount of time to worry about in a semester-long course, but Berkman and Plutzer’s alarm was palpable: “The boldness and confidence of this minority should not be underestimated.”

Of greater concern, however, (to evolutionists) “the cautious 60%” who sit on the fence to avoid controversy. Some of them avoid the topic, or just teach to the test, or teach various views to let the students make up their own minds. Few of the fence-sitters are advocates of young-earth creationism, which Berkman and Plutzer said “would prevent them from becoming strong advocates for evolutionary biology.”

The authors worry that many students, who will take biology as their only science course, will fail to hear from these cautious teachers the “evidence that evolution has occurred,” and that instruction in evolution will be “absent, cursory, or fraught with misinformation” in American high schools.

They worry about a “cycle of ignorance” in many communities, especially the “socially conservative” communities, where more of the “creationist” and “cautious” teachers tend to reside. The cycle must be broken to prevent a “systematic undermining of science.” Source: The fantastic
CreationEvolutionHeadlines

4) Peer reviewed scientific paper claims that the geological time scale could be off as much as 99%.

Guy Berthault, the author of the study is a graduate of The Ecole Polytechnique, France, and a member of the International Association of Sedimentologists and lives in Paris, France. The article is entitled “Analysis of the Main Principles of Stratigraphy on the Basis of Experimental Data”, and although it reaches some startling conclusions it’s caused barely a ripple in the millions of years geological continuum.

They are walking by faith and not by sight (or site) so that mere evidence is not going to impact them.

“When I started my experiments on strata formation I was surprised to find how little work had been done on the subject in the past. Of course, sediments had been examined and flume experiments performed in connection with building and other projects, but none with the object of explaining the mechanics of stratification.

I searched the data banks but found little to help with my research. I began to realize that the basic principles of superposition, continuity and initial horizontality laid down in the seventeenth century had been accepted, albeit with developments, virtually without question. There seemed to have been little attempt to examine the actual mechanics involved.

Yet a few simple experiments, first with laminae and later with strata revealed that the time needed for micro or macro strata formation was of quite a different order to that generally accepted. The implications were far-reaching both as concerns the geological time-scale and the fossil record.” Source: Author’s Site

5) Archaeopteryx Feathers will fly: Archaeopteryx relegated. Reclassification Raises Fear of Creationists
July 28, 2011 by Steve Drury |EARTH PAGES

“This year, 2011, is the 150th anniversary of the first Archaeopteryx specimen being unearthed from the famous Solnhofen limestone lagerstätte. With its feathered, lizard-like tail; two-clawed, stubby wings; a bill-shaped muzzle with teeth but no keratin coating; feet capable of perching and unlike those of small dinosaurs; a ‘wishbone’ and lightweight bones, Archaeopteryx was just the half-and-half missing link in the fossil record so desperately needed to support Darwin’s Origin of Species, published two years beforehand.

It has remained controversial ever since, even having been claimed to be a forgery by such luminaries as cosmologist Fred Hoyle in 1985, despite its superbly preserved intricacies and the existence at the time of 6 slightly different specimens from the same source some discovered long after Hoyle’s supposed master craftsman must have died.

Creationists soon after the first discovery claimed it was simply a bird created on a Friday together with fish (Genesis 1:20) and must have predated dinosaurs by a day, as they were created on the 6th Day along with all the ‘cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth’ (Genesis 1:24-31).

That scurrilous sect will certainly leap gleefully on the new discovery of a feathered dinosaur from the ever productive Late Jurassic Tiaojishan Formation in NE China (Xu, X. et al.2011. An Archaeopteryx-like theropod from China and the origin of the Avialae. Nature, v. 475, p. 465-470) because ironically, by itself, it could be said to be a missing link too.”

In fact, Xiaotingia zhengi possesses features very like those displayed by Archaeopteryx but convincingly close affinities to deinonychosaurian dinosaurs. The shared features show that neither is a bird (Avialae) and nor are they part of the clade that evolved to birds: they are part of the growing group of feathered dinosaurs that may well have glided or even flown.

As Lawrence Witmer of Ohio University has observed (Witmer, L.M. 201. An icon knocked off its perch. Nature, v. 475, p. 458-459),

‘This finding is likely to be met with considerable controversy (if not outright horror)…’.

Source:Earth Pages

6)More Fear of Creationists: Pssst! Don’t tell the creationists, but scientists don’t have a clue about how life began..

John Horgan writing for Scientific American wanted to use that headline 20 years ago when writing about the sad state of science with respect to the origin of life but couldn’t get away with it then. See, science is absolutely certain that life didn’t begin as it is described in Genesis but unfortunately science has no satisfactory alternative explanation. Well actually, they have dozens of alternative, mutually exclusive alternative explanations for the origin of life.

You’re not a scientist? Don’t know much about biology? How about life comes from life? Biogensis, life from life is all anyone knows but science is sure by faith that abiogenesis; life from non-life somehow occurred.

Mr. Horgan is letting us know from the inside that despite their assurance after many years no one has any idea how abiogenesis could have happened.

In 2011 the famous primordial soup grew cold and was thrown out. In our own article on the topic (Life is a Killer Problem for Science –And Hope for Alien Life; Dies Again. Plus, Shhh, Don’t Tell The Creationists we identified dozens of competing theories for the origin of life.

Source:Scientists Don’t Have a Clue How Life Began


7) 80 Whales Buried Mysteriously in Chilean desert .. Shhh, Don’t tell the creationists?
Marine graveyard is evidence for Noah’s Flood?

by Tas Walker
Published: 01 December 2011

“Researchers from the USA and Chile reported, in November 2011, a remarkable bone bed on the west coast of northern Chile near the port city of Caldera, about 700 kilometres (440 miles) north of the capital, Santiago. Excavations uncovered the remains of some 80 baleen whales of which more than 20 specimens were complete.

They also found other kinds of marine mammals including an extinct dolphin with tusks and a sperm whale.

The previous year, construction workers upgrading the Pan-American Highway discovered the fossil site in a road cut just north of Caldera. Since then, teams of scientists led by palaeontologist Nick Pyenson from the Smithsonian Institute and Mario Suarez from the nearby Museo Paleontologico de Caldera have been working to excavate the fossils while the road works were temporarily suspended.

The fossils alongside the highway are confined to a sandstone ridge about 20 metres (70 feet) wide and 240 metres (800 feet) long. Most whales were about 8 metres (25 feet) long, and perfectly preserved. Some whales were so close together that they overlapped one another. The site in a corner of the Atacama Desert is now well above sea level and over a kilometre from the shore. Suarez said it was well known that whale bones jutted out of the ridge, which was given the name Cerro Ballena, or Whale Hill.

Paleontologists were thrilled to find the treasure trove, describing it as “very unusual”. Pyenson thinks the whales all died “more or less at the same time” after they were trapped in a lagoon. Others suggest they became disoriented and beached themselves.

Paleontologist Erich Fitzgerald from Museum Victoria in Australia said it’s possible the remains accumulated over thousands of years. Whale expert Hans Thewissen from Northeast Ohio Medical University thought the whales might have gathered in a lagoon and been stranded by an earthquake or storm. After the connection to the ocean closed, the lagoon dried up and the whales died.

The puzzle of how these marine creatures died has caught news headlines with one reporting “Fossil Bonanza Poses Mystery”. Another asked, “How did 75 whales end up in the desert?”

Interestingly, some of those posting comments on these news reports suggested the creatures perished in Noah’s Flood. Robert Raeburn of Western Australia said, “The whales probably swam there when the whole world was covered in water, about 4000 years ago at the time of Noah. They would then have been stranded when the waters assuaged (drained back) to expose the dry land. … This all makes sense when viewed from a ‘Bible’ perspective.” An email friend suggested the same to Mario Suarez, one of the lead paleontologists. Not surprisingly, this idea generated a deal of web comments.

What stops people making the obvious connection between these fossils and Noah’s Flood? It’s the million-year ages assigned to the fossils.

The field evidence for large-scale catastrophe is overwhelming as these research scientists have reported. What stops people making the obvious connection between these fossils and Noah’s Flood? It’s the million-year ages assigned to the fossils.

On one comments thread Holly from the USA responded to the Noah’s Flood idea with, “Nothing from the Bible perspective makes sense, since 4,000 years ago that area wasn’t covered with water. However it was about 2 million years ago.” “

The remainder of the article and the source: Source

8)Everything that You thought you knew about dinosaurs is wrong! Again!

Were dinosaurs cold or warm blooded? Bi pedal or quadrupedal? Did the hold their heads erect or down? Omnivore, carnivore or vegetarian?

An article written in 2000 in Discover Magazine informs us that no one knows what dinosaurs looked like (except the people who saw them?) A 2009 article in LiveScience suggests that paleontologists have overestimated the girth of certain dinosaurs by as much as a third to a half-all this time.

In 2009 also UC Berkeley paleontologist Mark Goodwin and his partner Jack Horner of the Museum of the Rockies concluded that many dinosaurs once thought to represent new or separate species may have been new or separate at all.

A miniature creature known as Nanotyrannus, the recently discovered “tiny tyrant” that resembled the ferocious Tyrannosaurus rex, may have been nothing more than a juvenile version of the big dinosaur. And a giant headed, frill-necked creature that its discoverers called Torosaurus turns out to be only an old-age stage of the well-known plant-eating Triceratops.

And Hogwartia, the famous dinosaur that looked like a dragon!!? Just a plain old Pachycephalosaurus!

(What now will become of Chrisparkerosaurus!?

Is the constant shuffling of dinosaurs and dinosaur identifications the result of scientists seeking personal glory or the results of a field, paleontology, which is to science what Denny’s is to haute cuisine?

Yes!

Elsewhere on Horner and Dinosaur Identification Problems: “Dinosaur Classification Is a Mess CreationevolutionHeadlines

May 13, 2011 — Are there a thousand species of dinosaurs – or far fewer? John Horner, a dinosaur hunter himself, thinks the classification is a mess and wants to clean it up. According to Science Magazine News Horner is worried that “with almost 1000 types of dinosaurs on record and a new species being named somewhere in the world every 2 weeks—too many supposedly new discoveries are actually duplicates of animals already on the books.” Another paleontologist, Michael J. Benton, estimates that over half of the named dinosaurs are misclassified.

Apparently human pride is to blame. “Part of the problem, Horner says, is that scientists are sometimes too keen on finding and naming new dinosaurs.” Naming a new dinosaur gets you noticed and published. As a result, fossil hunters tend to focus on the differences instead of the similarities.

Additionally, “paleontologists are coming to realize that the bones of an adult dinosaur can be very different from those of a juvenile animal of the same species and can easily mislead scientists into thinking they are two different species.”..….CreationEvolutionHeadlines

9) Some “Non-Avian Feathered Dinosaurs” May Have Been Birds
Oh, I see; some of your non sequential, ill-logical thoughts have been formed into words

Did you follow that? Some “non-bird” feathered dinosaurs may have been birds?

Science writer Jennifer Viegas in Discovery News summarizes a research paper which had been published in February 2009 Medical Hypotheses. What is a non-avian dinosaur? Or more to the point, why are certain of God’s creatures known broadly as non-avian dinosaurs?

After all, aren’t all creatures either avians or non-avians?

It’s because in the absence of that description people would think that they were birds! In order to support the evolutionists current dinosaur to bird mythology, however, science needs these birds to be dinosaurs.

Suppose evolutionists had a mythology that t-rex’s evolved into dogs. Certain extremely dog-like fossils would be named; –non-dog-ian dinosaurs. (non-canine-dinosaurs)That way everyone would “know”. Source: Discovery News

10)Scientists Continue to Marvel at How Much the Universe is Fined Tuned for Human Life

Existence: Why is the Universe Just Right for us?
by Marcus Chown NewScientist, July 29, 2011

“IT HAS been called the Goldilocks paradox. If the strong nuclear force which glues atomic nuclei together were only a few per cent stronger than it is, stars like the sun would exhaust their hydrogen fuel in less than a second. Our sun would have exploded long ago and there would be no life on Earth. If the weak nuclear force were a few per cent weaker, the heavy elements that make up most of our world wouldn’t be here, and neither would you….(Chown)

If gravity were a little weaker than it is, it would never have been able to crush the core of the sun sufficiently to ignite the nuclear reactions that create sunlight; a little stronger and, again, the sun would have burned all of its fuel billions of years ago. Once again, we could never have arisen.

Such instances of the fine-tuning of the laws of physics seem to abound. Many of the essential parameters of nature – the strengths of fundamental forces and the masses of fundamental particles – seem fixed at values that are “just right” for life to emerge. A whisker either way and we would not be here. It is as if the universe was made for us.

What are we to make of this? One possibility is that the universe was fine-tuned by a supreme being – God. Although many people like this explanation, scientists see no evidence that a supernatural entity is orchestrating the cosmos.

(What! See Prior Paragraphs in this article, genuises!…s8int.com)

Source: NewScientist

11) The Continued Rehabilitation of New-anderthal


“New investigations at an iconic cave site on the Channel Island of Jersey have led archaeologists to believe the Neanderthals have been widely under-estimated.” ..BBC UK

Enough all ready! Several years ago a DNA study showed that Neanderthal DNA matched human DNA to 99.97%. You match your neighbor’s DNA to 99.99%. Jack Cuozzo, a dentist discovered that Neaderthal reconstructions had been deliberately tricked up to push their faces forward in order to make their faces appear to be more apelike. Cuozzo Story

But even though science is reporting these recent truths about Neanderthal; that he was fully human, apparently the message hasn’t penetrated the entire paleontological community.

We get it. The truth is; we never thought otherwise and in fact creationists were there from the beginning–from Genesis. If it was me I’d start to get irritated if people kept making a big deal about how “fully human” I am…BBC News UK

Math Musings

Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Uncategorized | Posted by Chris Parker
Dec 20 2011

By: Joli Storm, Rocky Mountain Creation Fellowship
Reprinted by Permission, Thanks!

“Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics; I can assure you that mine are still greater.” Albert Einstein

I love math. I’m not so good at it now that I’ve had three children, and have lost my mind ( I always say that my brains came out with my babies…) but I still love it. Let me briefly plunge you into the world of mathematics which I love so very much!

Back in 1986 or so, at Texas Tech University, my undergraduate differential equations professor told our class that many events in life can be described by differential equations. Then he told us that even earthquakes, which seem to us chaotic and unpredictable, can be described by differential equations. That rattled my mind! On a different and earlier note, I failed miserably at calculus based physics because I couldn’t get a grasp on the math involved!

A few years later, in a math seminar in graduate school, a professor was expounding on his research about where to amputate a person’s leg so that mathematically, they had the greatest range of motion for their prosthetic. I was amazed that something as serious as an amputation critically depended on mathematics!

The deeper I delved into math, the more I discovered that EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING, PERIOD follows mathematical principles. There are equations and/or expressions or a series of equations and/or expressions to describe everything, every movement every living being makes, walking, sitting, eating, speaking, etc. They describe every movement every non-living thing makes: planetary motion, waves in the ocean, a flag or blade of grass blowing in the wind, etc. Math describes every sound and every color imaginable. There are even equations and/or expressions to describe weather patterns and earthquakes. Some of these equations and expressions are unknown and are highly complicated. The largest galaxies in the universe down to the smallest particles known or unknown to man follow mathematical properties. Even chaos is mathematical. The concepts in physics, chemistry, and biology ALL boil down to mathematics.

Math also describes an unimaginably huge UNIVERSE of ideas which don’t represent the physical world! To prove and study anything–when it comes right down to it, requires math–in physics on the sub-atomic level or when proving things about galaxies.

Think about it.

Can we see quarks and muons, which are smaller than electrons, or can we see galaxies at the furthest reaches of the universe? We (I use that term loosely, because it surely doesn’t include me!) use mathematics as our eyes to “see” the unseen. We prove they exist by using mathematics.

Mathematics is literally intricately involved in the air we breathe, and of course all of the atoms in the molecules in the air follow mathematical principles. DNA also follows mathematical principles, and babies being put together in their mommies’ tummies follow mathematics.

Our brain function absolutely abides by mathematical principles. Even the process of decision making is mathematical. Time itself is mathematical. Electricity follows mathematical principles. All our machines and computers operate using mathematical principles. In business, it’s a given that math is indispensable, and even at the governmental level math is required.

Math is used for measuring. We measure time, populations, etc. and our society seems to love statistics. Environmentally if something needs to be proven it has to be done mathematically (e.g., counting how much particulate matter is in the air or water). And don’t forget about the medical field, sports, architecture, music, and shopping! Does history involve mathematics? You bet it does!

Again, some of these equations or expressions are known and many are unknown. The mind blowing part is that for us to live our lives, we never are required to know ALL the mathematics supporting our lives! What is also so fascinating about math is that it is so incredibly complicated that even the most brilliant of minds (like Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking, just to name two) couldn’t and can’t completely comprehend it, and yet it is so simple, that even my oldest child, when she was two years old, could comprehend counting and adding one plus one.

So my question to you is, “Where did math come from?” Where did something, which describes EVERYTHING, come from? Where did something that EVERYTHING in the universe abides by, come from? Where did something which is so incredibly complicated that even the MOST brilliant minds in the WORLD don’t fully understand it, and yet so simple that a child can comprehend it, come from? Did we invent it? Did it evolve?

I dare to say that it existed way before humans ever showed up. I dare to say that it existed before matter or energy existed, since matter and energy ABIDE by it, too! Man did, however, discover ways to take math which can’t be seen and give it symbols so that it can be “seen”. That in itself is fascinating to me. That the numbers and symbols of mathematics give us mental eyes to see, operate, and understand the mathematics which in turn help us to see our world and universe and beyond.

So where did math come from? The conclusion I draw from all of this is that it came from an intelligence way far beyond the intelligence of ANY human or super computer. I believe it came straight from the mind of an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving, everywhere-present, unimaginably intelligent Creator, since math is basically that way (well, maybe math isn’t loving–though love could be a part of math which is undiscovered…and love does happen in the mind, which operates on mathematical principles…).

So “What or who is this intelligence?” is my next question. I believe this intelligence is the God presented in the Bible. This God and Creator took these mathematical principles, equations, and expressions, which came from his heart, and gave them unbelievably beautiful physical form and function. There is MUCH more substantiation than just what I believe. Also, look at what is written about Him in the Bible. I got everything from the New King James Version, unless otherwise noted.

John 1:1-4 (Living New Testament version)
Before anything else existed, there was Christ, with God. He has always been alive and is himself God. He created everything there is nothing exists that He didn’t make. Eternal life is in Him, and this life gives light to all mankind.

Proverbs 3:19-20
The Lord by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding He established the heavens; by His knowledge the depths were broken up and clouds drop down dew.

Job 38:4-6
Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone…

Amos 5:8
He made the Pleiades and Orion; He turns the shadow of death into morning and makes the day dark as night; He calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out on the face of the earth; the Lord is His name.

Amos 9:6
He who builds His layers in the sky and has founded His strata in the earth; who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out on the face of the earth-the Lord is His name.

Zechariah 12:1
…Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him…

Daniel 5:23
… and the God who holds your breath in His hand and owns all your ways…

Job 33:4
The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Now for the next part of my musings… From these verses, it sounds like this God is basically untouchable. Is He? Does He care? Can a person actually KNOW Him?

Psalm 139:1-4,13,15,16 (I can’t remember what version this is from. I had it written down a few years ago.)

Oh Lord you have searched me and known me. You know my sitting down and my rising up; even from a distance You know what I’m thinking. You comprehend my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways. You know everything I’m going to say before I start the first sentence… You know exactly how I was made, bit by bit, how I was sculpted from nothing into something. Like an open book, you watched me grow from conception to birth; all the stages of my life were spread out before you, the days of my life all prepared before I’d even lived one day.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, (Jesus) that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Romans 10:9,10
…that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.

Can you believe I actually have more math musings? It seems that math mirrors some characteristics of God. For instance, God is infinite in all directions. He had no beginning and will have no end. That’s just like numbers. They have no beginning, because any number you start counting with, there’s always a number smaller, just subtract 1 from it. There is no end to numbers because any number you end with, just add one. Even between EVERY number, there are infinite sets of numbers, which have no beginning and no end.

Next is an idea I’ve mentioned earlier. Math is so extremely complicated that even the most brilliant of minds cannot fully comprehend or understand it, and yet it is so simple that even a child can learn it. That is just like God! He is so extremely complicated that no human or computer could ever figure Him out, and yet He is so simple, that even a child can understand Him and love Him.

I’m going to have a little trouble getting these next ideas across, so please hang with me. Sometimes, in trying to prove something, people will take an isolated event and extrapolate it so as to explain thousands of events. We seem to do that with God, also. It is SO easy to look at one part of our view of God and then draw conclusions like we know ALL about God. A way that math also mirrors God is that people will form a negative image of math for whatever reasons, usually a bad experience with it or a bad experience with a teacher, and people do that with God also. We just can’t know all there is to know about math, just like we can’t know all there is to know about God.

I really think that math comes straight from the heart of God and is evidence of God’s love and His order in the universe. EVERYTHING is based on it. It is the blue print of the universe. Also, in order to understand and go further in math, LOTS of time and effort must be spent on it and with it. This is the same with God. People can’t just hear about Him once and then know all there is to know. Time and effort must be spent with God and His word in order to know Him more deeply.

So another question I have for you is, knowing the beauty and intricacies of math thus far, do you think that math is a key for unlocking the secrets of the universe? An even more complicated and important question is, if atheists or skeptics were aware of the concepts of mathematics as set forth here, could they be led to believe in a creator? Can they possibly understand that the origin of something that is so highly complicated that even they themselves, and their idols such as Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking, can’t fully comprehend could not have even remotely evolved?

Well, it’s time for my math musings to end and for me to get back into the “mommy mode”. Actually, after just about every sentence here, I’ve had to wipe a nose, answer a question, aid in an argument, tend to an “owie”, get a drink or snack for some hungry munchkins, answer the phone, and clean up a multitude of messes made!

I love math! I love the implications inherent in mathematics which point directly to our wonderful Creator! I hope that through these musings, your love and appreciation of mathematics has grown, and that your love and appreciation of the absolute incomprehensivity (one of those made up words) of our loving Father has grown, also.

NOTE: One of my favorite sayings is “Don’t believe everything you think.” So just because “I think” something doesn’t make it truth! There are several books I like which show tons of historical and archeological evidence for things in the Bible. Two of them are Josh McDowell’s Evidence Which Demands a Verdict, Volumes I & II, but there are many, many more! Thanks.

Source

Were/Are Pterosaurs Bi-Peds or Quadrupeds? The Ancient Maya Weigh In?

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, Uncategorized, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Oct 21 2011

Photo: Mayan Peten Bowl
500 AD. to 800 AD. $1,895.00
“From ancient Mexico, Mayan, Peten region. Extremely fine and rare polychrome pottery bowl depicting the three failed attempts to create human beings – as published in the Maya Popol Vuh.” Gallery
Private collection

Well, here they are again; pterosaurs. If anyone out there consistently reads this blog it must seem as though pterosaurs are my favorite topic. That’s really not the case; they just seem to come up so frequently as a subject of ancient art is all. Honestly, my interests are broader than it would sometimes seem. I take them as they come.

Pterosaurs had three fingered “hands” attached to their wings at the pinky (a very long pinkie) and of course hind legs. Scientists have gone back and forth on the topic of pterosaur ground locomotion for years. Did they walk bi pedally or did they walk on all fours similar to a quadruped-or both?

The ancient Mayans weigh in with a partial answer; they could and did apparently walk on all fours. Prior specimens of ancient art that we’ve featured here indicate that they were bi pedal as well. The style and nature of this painting made it difficult for experts to identify the creature being portrayed on this ancient piece and they’ve concocted quite the story.

A comparison with recent mind’s eye depictions of pterosaurs on the ground may help the open minded see what the artist was apparently actually depicting; an out of time and place, pterosaur if you adhere to the current paradigm’s version of earth’s history.

“When setting out to restore fossil animals, an artist is faced with a unique problem that is not often faced by scientists. Where a scientist can reasonably reach the conclusion that something is not—or cannot be— known, a palaeontological artist is forced to reach conclusions on things which are unknown, and perhaps always will be.

An artist can’t paint a pterosaur in “don’t know” colours, or behaving in a “don’t know” way. Restoring pterosaurs, therefore, not only requires research into what is known about pterosaur’s anatomy, behaviour, and environment, but also a method for building up complete picture, even when there is little or no evidence to be had.”… John Conway Pterosaur Restoration.net

On Pterosaur Locomotion

“It didn’t take long for early pterosaur workers to figure out that pterosaurs were flying animals. Their hyperelongate forelimbs, fused torso elements, robust shoulder girdle and pectoral elements are clear indications that pterosaurs were adapted for self-propelled flight and, although some arguments have raged over the finer details of their flight styles, no-one has questioned their basic volant ability.


However, the same cannot be said for pterosaur terrestrial ability: for almost as long as pterosaurs have been known, little consensus has existed on both how and how well pterosaurs would be able to move on land. Early workers thought pterosaurs were probably relatively confident terrestrial locomotors, although no-one could agree whether they would stand in a bird-like, bipedal fashion, a lizard-like quadrupedal configuration or an erect, mammal-like quadrupedal stance.

Pterosaurologists of the mid-20th century took a dimmer view: these workers suggested that pterosaurs could barely stand, let alone walk, and would have to push themselves over the ground with dragging bellies and useless forelimbs held aloft.

Opinions changed in the 1980s when several pterosaur workers attempted biomechanical studies of pterosaur limbs in efforts to figure out their terrestrial competence: alas, this confused matters further as different interpretations of the same material led to drastically different conclusions.

In the space of a decade, pterosaurs were restored as dinosaur-like bipeds, penguin-like bipeds, sprawled-limbed quadrupeds and erect-limbed quadrupeds.”… Mark Witton Pterosaur Terrestrial Locomotion

So There You Have It?

“So there you have it. The answer is: Both.


Pterosaurs were both plantigrade and digitigrade. Pterosaurs were both bipedal and quadrupedal. Pedal digit 5 was useful for basal pterosaurs, but not for derived flatfoots. All of these traits are like those of living lizards, the ones capable of standing, walking and running bipedally.

At such times, these lizards turn from plantigrady to digitigrady without overextending the metatarsophalangeal joints, without having symmetrical pedes and without having all of the various morphological advantages that pterosaurs enjoyed, such as an anteriorly elongated ilium, an expanded sacral series for balance and prepubes to help elevate their femora. Pterosaurs likely took off bipedally, NOT with their forelimbs as described here.

They certainly had to land bipedally.”

Pterosaurs: Bipedal? Quadrupedal? or Both?
The Pterosaur Heresies

Survival of the Fittest? The Creation Museum A Natural Selection? Museum Thriving in its Environment

Church of Darwin, Dinosaurs in Literature, Religious, Science, The Flood of Noah, Uncategorized | Posted by Chris Parker
Mar 17 2011


After Three Years Creation Museum Is Evolving (But Not In That Way)
By Dennis O’Connor

Religion News Service, November 2010
The Huffington Post

Ken Ham, the Australian-born creator of the Creation Museum looks around the throng of about a thousand guests on a hot, August morning and notes that “for a Tuesday, this is not a bad crowd.”

In fact, more than three years after it opened in this remote corner of Kentucky, the 70,000-square-foot “walk through the Bible,” consisting of animatronic displays, video features, theaters and restaurants has evolved into a thriving enterprise.

“We have consistently surpassed our own forecasts for attendance,” said Mark Looy, a co-founder of the museum and spokesman for the center. Last month (August), the Creation Museum counted more than 1.2 million guests since it opened in 2007, he added.

While Ham and Looy expected attendance to be high for the first year because of the curiosity factor — there were about 500,000 guests in the museum’s first year — no one predicted the continuing growth in attendance.

Ham, who was instrumental in the startup of the museum’s sponsoring organization, Answers in Genesis, said that despite the economic recession, families, individuals, church groups and even bus tours continue to pour into the Creation Museum, often spending a couple of days in the region to sample other attractions in the Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky market.

“The recession has not in any way affected us,” Ham said. “Many people who were going to come here were going to make this their destination anyway. Add to that people who decided instead of taking an expensive vacation in Florida, they wanted to either stay in this area or make the trip here. Either way, the museum has really helped the local economy more than people may realize.”

Tom Caradonio, president of the Northern Kentucky Convention and Visitors Bureau, said that one of the Creation Museum’s greatest strengths is the interest and support it has garnered from evangelicals, a large demographic group.

“When Answers in Genesis did their demographic studies for the museum, they obviously knew that they had a group of people who would be highly motivated to visit,” Caradonio said.

Pastor Brad Bigney of nearby Grace Fellowship Church in Florence, Ky., said another reason for the museum’s steady flow of guests is Ham’s frenetic schedule, which puts him on the road up to 250 times a year.

“He’s a great spokesman for the museum, and he plants the seed for individuals and groups to make the trip to Northern Kentucky,” Bigney said.

Four years ago, the museum was beset by feuds over zoning issues and opposition from many corners of the scientific community.

That sideshow has not gone away, Ham said. Anti-creationist bloggers continue to pan the facility, and some critics have taken shots at the museum’s concept and staff. The pinnacle of ridicule came in the form of cable television star Bill Maher, who snuck into Ham’s office one day to do a taping for his movie “Religulous.”

But the biggest doubt over Answers in Genesis’ project was questions about whether organizers could raise the $27 million it would need to launch the project, Caradonio said.

“If you go back to the issue of private funding — there was no government money involved in this project — you will see that about $5 million came from big donors, but by and large the other contributions came from individuals who were giving $25 or $50 from all over the country,” Caradonio said. “With that many people invested in the project, you have built a huge audience that says, `Hey, I’ve put some money into this, and now I want to see the place.’ That became a tremendous incentive for people to visit.”

Looy said that more than half of the museum’s visitors come from outside a 250-mile radius of the region, which has bolstered the bottom line for numerous hotels in and around the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport, located just a few miles from the museum.

“That has been kind of a surprising development, with the hotel packages for museum visitors,” Caradonio said. “It goes back to this whole issue of the kind of people the Creation Museum attracts: wholesome family-oriented people who the hotel folks love to have. And their arrival has helped make up for the loss in business because of the cutbacks (at Delta Airlines hub operations at the airport).”

Ham estimated that the museum has generated $65 million in overall financial impact on the community, helping support more than 2,000 jobs,in the region.

Ham and co-founder Looy said that the museum’s success has allowed them to plan for expansion, including transforming warehouse space into additional room for a theater, and a new hall for visiting exhibits.

Ham noted that museum staffers already are planning for 20,000 guests to visit for the annual live Nativity exhibit, a substantial increase from last year’s attendance, which was about 15,000.

“We are growing,” Ham said. “And we don’t see that stopping any time soon.”

Creation Museum Website
Original Source:The Huffington Post

In Search of the Death Valley Cave System: Giants in Those Days? On The Ground in Death Valley- An Expedition to the Panamint Scorpions

Church of Darwin, Giants in Those Days, s8int.com, Uncategorized | Posted by Chris Parker
Feb 17 2011

Photo:Jef and team on the ground in Death Valley in search of the ancient cave system.

Several years ago, we reprinted an article originally printed in the San Diego Union on August 4, 1947 entitled;” Ancient Civilization Beneath Death Valley? EXPEDITION REPORTS NINE-FOOT SKELETONS.

This was a rather prominent article of the time concerning the alleged discovery of an ancient cave complex located in Death Valley which contained remnants of an ancient civilization and nine foot giants. The story eventually disappeared from the papers but we were able to find some possible collaborative evidence in the form of a mention of the discovery in a government archeologist’s papers.

In recounting the discovery, one of the principals; Hill claimed: “These giants,” said Hill, “are clothed in garments consisting of a medium length jacket and trouser extending slightly below the knees. The texture of the material is said to resemble gray dyed sheepskin, but obviously it was taken from an animal unknown today.”

S8int.com also included a number of other articles concerning the same cave system including descriptions of the area. With the advent of Google Maps and satellite photos of the area, those interested in the story have tried to find the location of the cave system. We’ve since had a number of updates about these aerial, virtual searches. Since our original article s8int.com has added nothing to the story but has only served to print comments and additional stories by others interested in the Death Valley Caves, if they exist.


The “Scorpions”: January 14, 2009 at 18:11 Google Earth:
36 31 23.67 N, 117 03 54.90 W

The search has recently focused on an area known as the scorpions, near Panamint Springs in Death Valley. There is a belief by some that the aerial maps of the area have been “airbrushed”. Scott S. who has supplied some updated material is a guy who has spent some of his vacations searching for the caves for up to a week at a time. He says he only lives 1,000 miles away. Disneyland is closer, I’m sure.

Recently, Jef Anderson, another adventurer and some of his compatriots took the possible coordinates of the cave system and set out for Death Valley. Here is an account of their journey.

Panamint Mountain Scorpions
Who says there’s no Intelligent Design?

Dateline: 2/14/11 – by Jef Anderson
All Photos and Text Copyright Jef Anderson, 2011

Right:Yahoo maps
36 31 23.67 N, 117 03 54.90 W

Below, Left: Bing Maps
36 31 23.67 N, 117 03 54.90 W
As near as I can tell… these images started appearing on all three major satellite mapping websites at approximately the same time – On January 14, 2009 Wouter W. of The Hague, Netherlands found this Google Earth image (the first image), which has since been removed from the Google sites, but can still be found by inputting the Long/Lat coordinates into the other map services.

It’s an extremely curious image, seemingly a massive geoglyph of a pair of Scorpions (or maybe Lobsters) positioned in the heart of the Panamint Mountains, in Death Valley California, and only visible from satellites or high flying aircraft, which would make the size on par with the Nazca geoglyphs.

On February 12, 2011 a group of 7 men set out to reach those GPS coordinates. The demographics of our group was comprised mainly of Educators, a few of them being former History teachers, all with Master’s degrees. Most of the members are experienced High Sierra outdoorsmen, having conquered several 14k peaks, with years of experience heading into extreme conditions.

This experience led us to choose February as the time to attempt this trek. We had great weather, temperatures ranging from 32º to 78º. Sudden thunder storms are really the only danger at this time of year, but we had blue skies and little to no wind. This window of temperate weather only occurs a few weeks every year before the legendary heat returns.

We decided to seize the opportunity.

Armed only with satellite maps and handheld GPS units, we set out from Salt Creek. There are no trails or paths heading toward the Scorpions, so we struck out across the one of the most inhospitable deserts in the America’s. The trackless journey took us across many types of terrain, rolling sand dunes, suddenly deep ravines, rocks ranging from gravel to boulders, and the ground covers with all manner of small cactus and nettled brush. The trek toward the coordinates was a steady climb of about 15º beginning under 200 feet below sea level.

Our base camp was Furnace Creek campground and we tented it, finding the National Parks service campground a nice one (although dealing with the Rangers is always a pain, and 12 Sax was not exception).

At about 6:45am and just before the sun shone down into the Panamint Valley we drove north up Hwy 190 toward the Salt Creek Trail parking lot, arriving around 7:10am. After quickly donning our daypacks, we set the compass and struck out at a heading of 220º. Our first waypoint was Trellis Canyon, though the way was obscured by a sharp, rising ridgeline bordering the salt creek.

The map below shows our starting point at Salt Creek, Trellis Canyon, and finally the Scorpions.

What follows is the log of the expedition.

07:15: Salt Creek Interpretive Trail Parking lot: 36 º 35’ 26.8N, 116 º 59’ 24.3W
- Sunrise, approx. 50º temp
- We climbed a small, steep ridgeline due West, then followed rolling desert
- Heading: 220 º
- Elevation: -200 ft.

07:45: 36 º 34’ 45.7N, 116 º 59 49.3W
- approx 55 º temp
- Now we encountered steep broken ravines cut into the rising desert floor, we were forced to pick our way down into the ravines, often traveling along them for a time before climbing out again, trying to maintain our bearing. Will’s foot issues force him to turn back – very bummed.

- Heading 200 º
- Elevation: – 200 ft.

08:15: 36 º 34’ 22.9N, 117 00’ 6.9W
- Approx 60 º temp

- We are now through the ravines and face a slope rising North by Northwest. It consists of softball to bowling ball size rocks, making the footing difficult. They’re too big to get flat footing and too small to “boulder” across, very annoying. In the distance we see two possible canyons that may be Trellis, so we split the difference between the two, heading toward the center.

- Heading: 200 º
- Elevation: -150 ft.

08:45: 36 º 33’ 43.9N, 117 00’ 46.8W
- Approx 60 º
- Still on the long climbing slope of rocks, we pass power lines and talk about what a miserable job installing those must have been
- Heading 220 º
- Elevation: -50 ft.

09:15: 36 º 33’ 17.3N, 117 01’ 33.4W
- Approx 60 º
- The angle of the slope has significantly increased, though the rocks become smaller, with many places very gravelly. We begin to think that the Northern canyon is indeed Trellis, so adjust out bearing and head that way.
- Heading: 240 º
- Elevation: +283

09:45: 36 º 33’ 7.7N, 117 02’ 34.0W
- Approx 65 º

- The bugs appear. These are little gnats, virtually invisible and SUPER annoying. What could they possible live on when they can’t get humans? We’ve seen no wildlife or water. We take a break in the shade of first set of uprising rocks that will eventually form the canyons, but the gnats are everywhere and we don’t stay long.

- Heading 310 º
- Elevation: +938

10:15: 36 º 32’ 53.8N, 117 03’ 20.0W
- Approx 65 º

- We enter Trellis Canyon. We’ve been shooting for 36 32 55.1N, 117 03 19.11W coordinates and pretty much navigated to the spot, once we decided the Northern canyon was our mark. The bugs are still present but as long as we keep moving they don’t bother too badly. The mouth of the canyon is about 200 yards across with several large rock formations that are evident in the satellite maps.
- Heading: 190 º
- Elevation: +1212 ft.

10:45: 36 º 32’ 13.2N, 117 03’ 35.2W
- Approx 65 º
- We kept working our way back into the ever narrowing canyon. The walls squeeze in, emphasizing the height of the canyon. The outer canyon walls much reach 3000 to 4000 feet up, with the ones we can touch easily over a 1000 feet. At one place in the “Narrows” I can touch both sides of the walls at the same time and yet the canyon towers about 2000 feet straight up – It’s an awesome place, and by the gps coordinates we know we’re getting close to the Scorpions.

All along this part of the canyon, we can see “hanging valleys” open up above us in the rocks. All of them are at least 50 to 100 feet up from the riverbed that we’re walking on. The evidence of water erosion is significant, and it’s easy to see how this canyon was formed, being cut so sharply by the flash floods that race down the narrow canyon. One of these hanging valleys is easy to spot when we climbed a rock wall across from it.

There is now a shear rock wall that must be climbed in order to really see into the valley, but from our view it’s clearly evident that it has a lot of square acreage. It’s now absolutely inaccessible without a 3 or 4 rated climb of over 100 feet. And it’s not alone, we see several places were areas open up, but they’re all very high up in the canyon walls, some 1000 to 3000 feet up. We didn’t plan on climbing, knowing that we wouldn’t have the time. But climbing there is the only way to really explore the mysteries of the place. We believe the coolest stuff is now high up in the canyon walls, and can only be reached by climbing.

- Heading: 190 º
- Elevation: +1524 ft.

11:36: 36 º 31’ 23.67N, 117 03’ 54.90W
- Approx 65 º
- THE SCORPIONS, we reach the coordinates a little after 11:30am.

The narrow sliver of sky we see is still bright blue, with golden sunlight reflecting hard off the towering canyon walls. We however are covered in dark shadow. It’s evident that some places within the canyon never get sunlight because the extremely high walls. I’m not just spouting poetic imagery… this is the point –
The Scorpions are created by shadow. There are so many twisting, turning corners to the canyon that it’s easy to see how the Scorpions are formed.

I’ve been so mystified by the darkness of the Scorpions, when every other shadow on the satellite images are a lot softer. But now, standing in these impressively high and narrow canyons, the darkness of the images is obvious. The contrast of the light and darkness is extreme and the blackness of the shadow in such close proximity to that of the brightly lit rocks, no doubt creates the deep blackness of the satellite photo images.


We’ve found no caves or caverns at ground level, but as I’ve stated, we’ve seen the potential for both high up in many places along the canyon. We also haven’t seen any geoglyphs or any evidence that humans have ever been in this place. BUT, it’s also very obvious that the canyon get scoured by flood waters and has (relatively) quickly sunk down many dozens if not hundreds of feet since the time people may have lived here.

If people did once inhabit this place, the evidence for them wouldn’t be down at the current ground level, but up much higher in the canyon walls and in the suspended/hanging valleys that would have been much closer to ground level long ago.
- Elevation: +2169 ft.

This picture (top article photo) was taken at precisely 36 31 23.67 N, 117 03 54.90 W – the coordinates given by all three satellite map services, showing the Scorpions


The fact that the Scorpions exist in the satellite images is, in my mind, evidence of the awesome creativity that God shows in his creation. No one can deny there are images on the satellite photos, images that are created by shadow and light, yet clearly form recognizable, symmetrical shapes; shapes that don’t happen randomly in nature. It seems this place is marked specially for some reason and though evidence wasn’t observable at ground level, who can guess what kinds of things may be found higher up in the canyon walls.

We’ll be going back, with climbing gear ;)

Prior Articles on this Topic

Ancient Civilizations, Giants, Tunnels Beneath Southern California?
Update on:Ancient Civilizations, Giants, Tunnels Beneath Southern California? Tuesday, December 23rd, 2008

More on Death Valley Cave Complex–Giants Etc. Thursday, January 1st, 2009

Updating the Update of the Death Valley Giants Cave Complex-with Coordinates Monday, January 12th, 2009

Death Valley Giants Cave Complex Satellite Photo Blurred Out? Wednesday, April 28th, 2010

New Update on the Death Valley Cave Complex-Quest for Death Valley Giants and the Cover Up? Scott S. June 16 2010

New Update on the Death Valley Cave Complex Scott S. June 17 2010

The Splay-Footed Cricket’s Giving Darwinists a Spot of Bother
For 100 Million Years Baby Looked Just Like Mother and Father?
So How Have These Crickets Stayed in Stasis For So Long?
Does This Evolving, Non Evolving Problem Show Darwin Was Wrong?

Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Science, Uncategorized, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Feb 05 2011


Rare insect fossil reveals 100 million years of evolutionary stasis
February 3, 2011
Physorg.com

Photo: A fossil found in northeastern Brazil confirmed that the splay-footed cricket of today has at least a 100-million-year-old pedigree. Credit: Hwaja Goetz

Researchers have discovered the 100 million-year-old ancestor of a group of large, carnivorous, cricket-like insects that still live today in southern Asia, northern Indochina and Africa.

The new find, in a limestone fossil bed in northeastern Brazil, corrects the mistaken classification of another fossil of this type and reveals that the genus has undergone very little evolutionary change since the Early Cretaceous Period, a time of dinosaurs just before the breakup of the supercontinent Gondwana.

The findings are described in a paper in the open access journal ZooKeys.

“Schizodactylidae, or splay-footed crickets, are an unusual group of large, fearsome-looking predatory insects related to the true crickets, katydids and grasshoppers, in the order Orthoptera,” said University of Illinois entomologist and lead author Sam Heads, of the Illinois Natural History Survey.

“They get their common name from the large, paddle-like projections on their feet, which help support their large bodies as they move around their sandy habitats, hunting down prey.”

Although the fossil is distinct from today’s splay-footed crickets, its general features differ very little, Heads said, revealing that the genus has been in a period of “evolutionary stasis” for at least the last 100 million years.

Other studies have determined that the region where the fossil was found was most likely an arid or semi-arid monsoonal environment during the Early Cretaceous Period, Heads said, “suggesting that the habitat preferences of Schizodactylus have changed little in over 100 million years.”

More information: The paper, “On the Placement of the Cretaceous Orthopteran Brauckmanni groeningae From Brazil, With Notes on the Relationships of Schizodactylidae (Orthoptera, Ensifera),” is available online.

Provided by University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (news : web)

See Also: Pelican Fossil Poses Evolutionary Riddle; Why, They Haven’t Evolved, Not Even a Little

Thanks to Chris Z. and Scott S.