Archive for the ‘Unexplained Artifact’ Category

“Ancestor of all Birds Knocked from its Perch”; Paleontologists Eat Crow? Horsefeathers Fly

Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Science, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Aug 02 2011

Genesis 2:19
Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky.

The idea of feathered dinosaurs and the theropod origin of birds is being actively promulgated by a cadre of zealous scientists acting in concert with certain editors at Nature and National Geographic who themselves have become outspoken and highly biased proselytizers of the faith. Truth and careful scientific weighing of evidence have been among the first casualties in their program, which is now fast becoming one of the grander scientific hoaxes of our age—the paleontological equivalent of cold fusion. If Sloan’s article is not the crescendo of this fantasia, it is difficult to imagine to what heights it can next be taken”. .. Storrs L. Olson, Smithsonian, November 1999 Article

“The theory that dinosaurs gave rise to birds has been dealt a blow by palaeontologists who have examined critical evidence from a Chinese fossil. The discoverers of the turkey-sized dinosaur Sinosauropteryx say it would have had primitive feathers, supporting the bird-from-dinosaurs theory. But the latest research says these “proto feathers” are really frilly structures on the creature’s back.” Dinosaur “Feathers” Are No Such Thing-ABC NewsOnline, May 2007

Ancestor of all Birds Knocked from its Perch

By Laurent Banguet Yahoo News Jul 27, 2011

….The winged Archaeopteryx, long venerated as the forebear of birds, has been knocked off its hallowed perch on the tree of evolution, according to a study released Wednesday.

A new dinosaur species unearthed in northern China reveals that the iconic 150 million year old “original bird” is probably just another dino with feathers, of which there are many, the researchers said.

It is hard to imagine a harder fall from evolutionary grace.

Since its discovery 150 years ago in Bavaria, most scientists placed Archaeopteryx squarely at the root of the broad group of proto-birds, known as Avialae, from which our modern feathered friends have emerged.

The emblematic creature was also held up as a case study — THE case study during the late 19th century — of evolutionary transition, to wit, from dinosaur to bird.

Over the years, a few scientists have gingerly expressed doubts, pointing to supposedly defining bird-like characteristics — feathers, the wishbone, three-fingered hands — that were also showing up in non-avian dinosaurs.

But without hard proof that Archaeopteryx was not really where it belonged on the so-called phylogenetic tree, the presumed progenitor continued to reign over its feathered kingdom.

Enter Xing Xu, a professor at Linyi University in China’s Shandong Province and discoverer extraordinaire of dinosaur fossils.

In the new study, published in Nature, Xu and colleagues describe the attributes of a previously unknown dinosaur the fossil of which was found in Liaoning Province, in China’s northeast.

About the size of a chicken and probably weighing less than a kilo (about two pounds), Xiaotingia shared a host of key characteristics with Archaeopteryx but seemed, at the same time, to fall into another group of non-avian dinos called Deinonychosauria.

A standard computer analysis confirmed as much, but at the same time produced a stunning result: Archaeopteryx had been reclassified into the same group.

“In other words, Archaeopteryx was no longer a bird,” Lawrence Witmer, a professor at Ohio university’s Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine, said in a commentary, also in Nature.

Xiaotingia, it turns out, was the smoking gun that sceptical scientists had been looking for.

Surprised by their findings, Xu and his team ran the analysis again, but this time without the newly discovered species. Archaeopteryx was restored — in error, they now knew — to its previous perch.

Xu has called for further confirmation, but suggests that his discovery will overturn long-held assumptions about the “avian ancestral condition.”

“Perhaps the time has come to finally accept that Archaeopteryx was just another small, feathered, bird-like theropod fluttering around in the Jurassic,” Witmer said.

One reason it has been so hard for biologists to embrace this idea may have more to do with history than science.

The first Archaeopteryx specimen was discovered, with uncanny timing, less than two years after the publication of Charles Darwin’s game-changing Origin of the Species.

With an evenly matched blend of avian and reptilian features, it became — in textbooks and public debate — “Exhibit A” in explaining the transformative power of natural selection and evolution.

“The familiar fossils have guided almost all scientific thought about the beginnings of birds,” Witman said, including himself among those led astray.

It’s reclassification, he added, is likely to “rock the palaeontological community for years to come.”

Who are the new candidates for king of the roost?

No single species is likely to ever gain the stature that Archaeopteryx once had, said Xu.

But among the new pretenders, three newly discovered creatures stand out: Epidexipteryx, Jeholornis, and Sapeornis.

..

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On Propositioning Atheists, Giant Penguins in the Garden of Eden and How Science Works #173

Church of Darwin, Giants in Those Days, Religious, s8int.com, Science, Uncategorized, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jul 14 2011


“God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodly behavior and the injustice of human beings who silence the truth with injustice. This is because what is known about God should be plain to them because God made it plain to them. Ever since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities—God’s eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through the things God has made. So humans are without excuse. Although they knew God, they didn’t honor God as God or thank him. Instead, their reasoning became pointless, and their foolish hearts were darkened. While they were claiming to be wise, they made fools of themselves. .” Romans 1

Selfish Genes vs “Skepchick’s” Jeans

It turns out that sometimes Atheists like to gather together in halls and hotels for conferences where they seek to encourage one another in the faith and discuss ways to proselytize. They discuss the sacred writings of their high profs; book, chapter and verse. They listen to speeches (sermons?) from those skilled in dealing with their specific articles of faith and of course they socialize and talk about MythBusters.


Rebecca Watson is a young Atheist who leads a team of “female activists” at Skepchick.org and who gets to travel all over the world delivering talks on science, Atheism, feminism etc. She appears on a number of Atheistic/Skeptical programs and has an internet presence. Considering that she is one of the few female stars in the Atheistic realm she is well known and is apparently sought after as a speaker.

Not long ago she mentioned on a podcast following a conference where she was a panelist with Richard Dawkins a story about being “hit on” in an elevator by a conference attendee. Her comment/request has engendered a fairly nasty response from the Atheist/Skeptic community.

“So I walk to the elevator, and a man got on the elevator with me and said, ‘Don’t take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting, and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee?’

Um, just a word to wise here, guys, uh, don’t do that. You know, I don’t really know how else to explain how this makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I’ll just sort of lay it out that I was a single woman, you know, in a foreign country, at 4:00 am, in a hotel elevator, with you, just you, and–don’t invite me back to your hotel room right after I finish talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner
”

Ms. Watson went on to mention that a number of women she knew did not like to attend these types of conferences because they were “hit on” so frequently and she avowed that this served to limit the number of women in the movement. She went on in a blog about the incident above;

“So here we are today. I am a feminist, because skeptics and atheists made me one. Every time I mention, however delicately, a possible issue of misogyny or objectification in our community, the response I get shows me that the problem is much worse than I thought, and so I grow angrier. I knew that eventually I would reach a sort of feminist singularity where I would explode and in my place would rise some kind of Captain Planet-type superhero but for feminists. I believe that day has nearly arrived.”

Richard Dawkins, the world’s most famous non-believer responded to her advice and concern regarding the elevator incident in a sarcastic message that began;

“Stop whining, will you”? From there it went down hill.

Now, much of the Atheist community is at war (of words). Ms. Watson has received more than 1,300 comments on her site alone and many other acrimonious conversations are taking place elsewhere on the web.

Here’s the thing; why is Ms. Watson surprised by any of this?

As a leader in the Atheistic religion hadn’t she studied its history? Didn’t she know that a powerful force behind the rejection of Christianity and religion in general was “sexual freedom”? It was the burden of morality and the requirement to adhere to societal standards (which drew their inspiration from the Bible and Christianity) that provided a primary motivation for unbelief.

This is something that Christians have been pointing out for decades and that Atheists have tried to argue against; that a powerful motivation for Atheistic beliefs both in the formation of modern Atheism and in many Atheists today is freedom from exogenous moral values.

Aldous Huxley, a famous and influential Atheist of the 1960’s and grandson of ground floor Atheist/philosopher Thomas Huxley explains:

“I had motives for not wanting the world to have meaning; consequently assumed it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption . . The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics; he is also concerned to prove there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do . .

For myself, as no doubt for most of my contemporaries, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation. The liberation we desired was simultaneously liberation from a certain political and economic system and liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom.”—*Aldous Huxley, “Confessions of a Professed Atheist,” Report: Perspective on the News, Vol. 3, June, 1966, p. 19

We could give additional examples but Ms. Watson probably now has hundreds if not thousands of additional, personal examples to draw from. How dare someone, and particularly a woman and particularly one from their own community suggest that there be any restriction on their sexual freedoms? Is she trying to describe a morality that Atheists and particularly male Atheists should have to adhere to, they wonder?

What’s the point in rejecting God if at the end one has to lead a moral life anyway? What’s the point in imagining an entire scheme that makes you an accidental life form in an accidental universe with no one as your boss only to have someone acting as your boss?

No wonder that Dawkins, the titular head of the Darwin party had to step in to try to set things right. As an Atheist, he probably has a hard time even figuring out why she would selfishly say no, anyway. What’s the big whoop he must wonder? Just selfish genes trying to replicate, after all. Dawkins made the notion of selfish genes famous in his 1976 book wherein every action and reaction of man can be seen as selfish genes seeking to propagate themselves. (No doubt many would object to this definition)

The signers of the Declaration of Independence had it right (borrowing from the French) when they said that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, a proposition that would hold true with respect to government for both Christians and Atheists. However, the cornerstone statement in the Declaration is “we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights” supersedes even the consent of the government and places those rights and moral responsibilities in the hands of a greater power, God. Moral systems must be obtained from a higher power than man himself since if all men are equal then they are each equally capable of deciding on their own what is wrong and what is right in their own eyes.

Atheists may accept the idea of government and laws based on the consent of the governed but certainly reject the notion that we are endowed with anything from a Creator. We’re surprised that Ms. Watson, as a high priestess of the faith didn’t know that.
As far as Atheists are concerned, heaven is here on earth and that means they don’t need women (or God) getting in the way of their liberation from restrictions, particularly sexual ones.

On Giant Penguins and Conditions That Must Have Existed in the Garden of Eden and the Early Years of this Planet

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that
Genesis 6:4

In September 2010, UPI.com had a report about a giant penguin fossil discovered in Peru:

“The fossil of a giant red penguin, nearly twice as tall as the largest living species, has been discovered in Peru, U.S. paleontologists say. Standing 5 feet tall, nearly twice the height of an Emperor penguin, the fossil, discovered in Peru’s Reserva Nacional de Paracas and nicknamed Pedro, is 36 million years old, the BBC reported.” UPI, Sept. 30, 2011

For those gentle readers who like to play “stump the creationist”, take note. All penguins do not live in the the Arctic or under Arctic conditions. There are penguins living today in a warm South Africa (rather that a cold South Pole) for instance and that’s how Noah found penguins in “Palestine” for the ark.


Science has given these giant penguins its own species name but the fact of the matter is; they are simply penguins. If you were to see one today you would recognize it not as some evolutionary predecessor to the penguin, but as a penguin—albeit a very large one. These giant creatures of the earth’s past are an unexamined and an unexplained problem for the theory of evolution and the life of this planet.

When Genesis reports that there were giants in those days, I think many Christians assume that the text suggests that some of the people in those days were giants and that some survived after the flood. Fossil evidence suggests an alternative; perhaps every creature was created as a relative giant in those days and after the flood, some vestiges of the time of the giant creatures remained.

Fossil evidence suggests that besides giant reptiles, there were giant turtles, penguins, clams, humans, dogs, sheep, fish, deer, rodents, rhinos, insects, birds etc. in the past life of this planet. These giant creatures are as recognizable as are there smaller relatives living today. Evolution does not explain why there was a period in the earth’s history when all creatures were gigantic forms of the same creatures living today.

Kansas giant print 44 inches long-from Valley of the Giants by C.N. Dougherty.

Mary Leakey was one of the discoverers of chimpanzee bone fragments which became known as Lucy which was put forward by paleontologists as a human ancestor back in the early 1970s. You remember that. You don’t remember that her husband Louis Leakey found an “inexhaustible supply of human bones” along with “traces of dinosaurs” in Kenya at Nakeru back in the 1920s because that’s how “science” works. Source: The Montreal Gazette – Sep 24, 1927

Louis Leaky made an even more amazing discovery in keeping with our giant penguins and Garden of Eden theme. As reported in the New York Times of May 11, 1958 Leakey discovered the complete skeletons of gigantic animals along with evidence of giant humans at Olduvai Gorge in East Africa. The New York Times article was entitled; “Gigantic Fossils of Animals Found, East African Expert Cites Sheep as Big as Horses, Hogs with Elephant-Like Tusks”.

Here are excerpts from the article:

“London May 10—The remains of gigantic animals, including sheep as big as present-day carthorses and hogs with tusks like elephants have been dug out of an ancient gorge at Olduvia, in East Africa.

Two giant human teeth have also been found
.”

“
Specimens have been brought to London for comparative studies by the man who found them. He is Dr. Louis S.B. Leakey, director of the Coryndon Museum at Nairobi, Kenya.”

“
.But the most remarkable character of the Chellean Age was he says, the gigantic size of the animals existing at that time. Dr. Leakey has found the complete skeleton of a Pleistocene sheep with a horn-span of fourteen feet. It was about as big as a big cart-horse, he says. He has also unearthed the bones of wild hogs the size of a rhinoceros with elephant sized tusks.

He has found a giant giraffe, baboons as big as modern gorillas, massive zebras and antelopes. But his most important find from the point of view of the evolution of man is two giant teeth. They are either from a Chellean child or they are from another species of man hunted and eaten by cannibalistic Chelleans. (They appeared to be primary or “baby” teeth).

They are undoubtedly human and larger than any previously discovered. One molar is bigger than that of the mature molars of Peking Man (up to 9 feet tall).” NYT

Leakey attributed the gigantic size of the animals of this time with “trace elements” washed down into the gorge and then consumed by the animals of the gorge.


Despite their protestations to the contrary, Darwinists have no answer for these gigantic versions of currently existing animals. A beaver the size of a modern black bear; an armadillo the size of a Volkswagen, giant oysters in the mountains of Peru 12 feet wide, a type of deer 7 feet tall at the shoulder 8 foot roly poly’s, dragon flies with two foot wingspans, a super croc the size of a boxcar, rodents the size of a bull are outside of current Darwinian understanding to say nothing of 5 foot penguins.

Many of these creatures simply couldn’t exist or function under current gravitational conditions. Sauropods likely could not have lifted their heads. Argentavis magnificens, an eagle like raptor and the largest bird ever discovered could not have flown under current gravity conditions. Very ancient depictions of mastodons show them galloping like a horse. Currently living elephants are too big to run or gallop.


The question is when did these creatures live in the history of this planet? From an evolution perspective; what evolutionary advantage would giant versions of today’s animals have over there smaller cousins? Why is the only difference between the gigantic animals of yesterday and today’s smaller versions their size? Where are the other adaptations that must have taken place over allegedly millions of years? Why would they evolve to large size and then to small?

A 1987 article in Time Magazine might provide a clue; it was entitled Putting On Ancient Airs”, and informed that “two scientists stunned colleagues by reporting that 80 million years ago, (sic) the earth’s atmosphere contained about 50% more oxygen than it does now.”


Geochemists Gary Landis of the U.S. Geological Survey and Robert Berner of Yale were able to measure ancient air trapped in amber. Naturally we don’t subscribe to the age given as 80,000,000 years ago, but it does raise the possibility that at one time on this planet there was much more oxygen to breathe in the atmosphere than there is now. The comparison is 21% oxygen today vs. up to 35% oxygen in the past.

Why did gigantic versions of man and creature live in the earth’s past? Genesis provides the best answer; there were giants in those days


‘Monstrously Big Ant’ Fossil Found in Wyoming
Giant “Sea Monster” Fossil Discovered in Arctic
Scientists Discover Giant Penguin Fossil (Video)
Giant wombat fossil found (Science Alert)
Giant Ant Fossil Unearthed: Big Pic : Discovery News
Arnold Schwarzenbunny: Giant Rabbit Fossil Found

Spanish island yields giant rabbit fossil – UPI.com

Giant snake fossil hints at a hotter future – environment -
Giant spider fossil found in Mongolia – The Mumpsimus Blog site
Giant Beaver Fossils with Facts and Pictures.
Scientists Discover “Giant Fossil Frog from Hell” –
Giant Condor Fossil | Flickr –
Discovery of a giant fossil bird with teeth – PetHobbyist.com Site …
Cryptomundo » Giant Fossil Rodent Discovered
Giant Stork Fossil was found in Flores, Indonesia. – Cultural …

Giant prehistoric fish species found in forgotten fossils (Wired UK)
Fossil of Giant Crocodile Found in Cuba « Repeating Islands
[News]: Ark. students discover giant cephalopod fossil
Pampatheriidae (Fossil Giant Armadillos) | Skulls Unlimited …
Giant Clam Shell Fossil
Giant Fossil ‘Strange Shrimp’ Found
Amblyrhiza Inundata: Giant Fossil Rat- Anguilla Local News
400-Million-Year-Old Mystery: Giant Tree-like Object in Epoch
Giant Tree Fossils

How Science Works #173

First of all, we have no idea whether we’ve correctly numbered these “How Science Works” articles. That’s how we work.

Recently, we noted that archaeologists had virtually been forced to acknowledge that an incised bone discovered at Vero Beach Florida was an actual ancient artifact that proved that elephants or mastodons had lived in North America in the ancient past.

They then declared it to be the first such representation in North America. We can’t figure out if that is a bold faced lie or simply a demonstration of real ignorance on the subject as literally hundreds if not thousands of similar depictions have been found in North America over the last several hundred years. Science just managed to declare all previous artifacts “fakes” or simply ignored them.

This is how archaeology works. Theories are promulgated. A consensus is formed and later a paradigm is created.

Evidence that fits the paradigm is catalogued and embraced; evidence that contradicts the paradigm is ignored or falsified. This process is absolute since one countervailing piece of evidence that is permitted to “exist” could weaken or threaten the paradigm.

This is actually how many human systems work to be honest; it’s just that many believe that science is exempt. It is not.

A number of gentle readers of a certain persuasion have asked; where is the scientific evidence, for example of human and dinosaur interaction? Why they ask, haven’t dinosaur fossils ever been found along with evidence of human bones or artifacts? Why are no human fossils found in such and such a strata? We have to assume that these questions are sincere and that they simply don’t know how science works.

Here is a simple case of how science works that may serve to illustrate the paradigm protection apparatus in action.

Frank Calvert (1828–1908) was an English expatriate who was a consular official in the eastern Mediterranean region and an amateur archaeologist. He began exploratory excavations on the mound at Hisarlik (the site of the ancient city of Troy), seven years before the arrival of Heinrich Schliemann. Calvert was the youngest of a family of archaeologists
Wikipedia

“In 1874, Frank Calvert found in a Miocene formation in Turkey (along the Dardanelles) a Deinotherium bone with carved figures of animals upon it. Calvert noted: “I have found in different parts of the same cliff, not far from the site of the engraved bone, a flint flake and some bones of animals, fractured longitudinally, obviously by the hand of man for the purpose of extracting the marrow, according to the practice of all primitive races.” Nature 27 March 1873

This report was made in scientific magazines of the day however; the elephant-like deionotherium was supposedly never seen by modern man. “Modern humans” were supposedly nonexistent in the Age science called the Miocene. On top of that, the deionotherium bone had a number of incised creatures upon it including what people with normal vision might call a dinosaur.
What happened next?

The paradigm protection system went to work.

“In Le Prehistorique, de Mortillet (prominent evolutionist/scientists) did not dispute the age of the Dardanelles formation. Instead he commented that the simultaneous presence of a carved bone, intentionally broken bones, and a flint flake tool was almost too perfect, so perfect as to raise doubts about the finds.” ..Forbidden Archaeology

The following denunciation of the discoveries is a classic of its kind:

“The pretended discovery by Calvert of human prehistoric handiwork in the Miocene of the Dardanelles near Constantinople proves to be unfounded, the supposed tracings on a piece of bone turning out, it is stated, to be merely the eroding work of some crustacean.” Harper’s magazine, Volume 49—Editors Scientific Record, 1874

Finally, here is someone, a scientist, trumpeting the destruction of all evidence proffered by members of their own scientific fraternity of the remote antiquity of man. It should be noted that the Christian view of this phenomena (remote antiquity of man) is that man has existed as long as the world has existed. Here is the “how science works” quote.

“Much of the evidence which had been prominently put forward in support of the high antiquity of man has, during the past few years, been completely abandoned. Thus:—

The Abbeville human jaw from the gravel of the Somme is acknowledged to be “a plant.”

The Paleolithic “beads” of St. Acheul are found to be organisms of the chalk.*

The human bone from the Victoria cavern, which Professor Boyd Dawkins once described as “establishing the fact that man lived in Yorkshire before the glacial period,” and who added, that “the man to whom it belonged was probably devoured by hyenas,” has now been pronounced to be the bone of a bear; \ and a “cut” bone, said to have been found in an undisturbed layer in association with the extinct mammals in the same cave, belongs to a domestic sheep or goat, both of which were unknown in Europe before the Neolithic age.

Some of the artistic drawings upon the fossil bones found in the ThĂŒringen Cave in Switzerland, are now pronounced to be spurious, and the result of intentional deception. The same drawings are contained in a work published six years before the discovery of the cave.

The reputed discovery of relics of man 800 feet deep in a Miocene deposit at the Dardanelles, by Mr. Frank Calvert, is now utterly rejected.

The supposed dressed flints from Miocene beds at Theney,** the “worked ” flints from the Pliocene beds of St. Prest, and the supposed basket-work from lignite, in Switzerland, have all broken down under a searching examination.

And I claim, on the evidence adduced in former papers read before this Society, to have stamped out the evidence of Paleolithic man from the “famous” cavern of Brixham.

But above all we are indebted to the Woodwardian Professor of Geology at Cambridge for the important statement,—that the evidence for the antiquity of man has completely broken down in all cases where it has been attempted to assign him to a period more remote than the post-glacial river gravels.” THE SUPPOSED PALEOLYTHIC IMPLEMENTS OF THE VALLEY OF THE AXE. By NICHOLAS WHITLEY, C.E. 1883

Conclusion: In order to maintain the paradigm science lies to both creationists/Christians as readily as it lies to Evolutionists/Atheists.

We wonder if evolutionists even care? After all, it’s their paradigm that is being preserved.

See Also Mega Fauna Section
The Real Story of Vero Beach Wasn’t Ancient Mammoth Art but Rather; Ancient Mammoth Humans and Mammoth Archaeological Misdirection

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A Lost World? Atlantis-Like Landscape Discovered

Church of Darwin, Science, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jul 11 2011

This image of the ancient buried landscape discovered deep beneath the sediment of the North Atlantic Ocean was made using sound waves bounced off different rock layers. An ancient meandering riverbed is visible.
CREDIT: R A Hartley et al.

Comment: We know of only one flood large enough to submerge “eight major rivers” and it wasn’t 30 million years ago. The recent global flood in the time of Noah…..s8int.com

Article by: Wynne Parry Date: 10 July 2011, LiveScience

Buried deep beneath the sediment of the North Atlantic Ocean lies an ancient, lost landscape with furrows cut by rivers and peaks that once belonged to mountains. Geologists recently discovered this roughly 56-million-year-old landscape using data gathered for oil companies.

“It looks for all the world like a map of a bit of a country onshore,” said Nicky White, the senior researcher. “It is like an ancient fossil landscape preserved 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) beneath the seabed.”

So far, the data have revealed a landscape about 3,861 square miles (10,000 square km) west of the Orkney-Shetland Islands that stretched above sea level by almost as much as 0.6 miles (1 km). White and colleagues suspect it is part of a larger region that merged with what is now Scotland and may have extended toward Norway in a hot, prehuman world.

History beneath the seafloor

The discovery emerged from data collected by a seismic contracting company using an advanced echo-sounding technique. High pressured air is released from metal cylinders, producing sound waves that travel to the ocean floor and beneath it, through layers of sediment. Every time these sound waves encounter a change in the material through which they are traveling, say, from mudstone to sandstone, an echo bounces back.

Microphones trailing behind the ship on cables record these echoes, and the information they contain can be used to construct three-dimensional images of the sedimentary rock below, explained White, a geologist at the University of Cambridge in Britain.

The team, led by Ross Hartley, a graduate student at the University of Cambridge, found a wrinkly layer 1.2 miles (2 km) beneath the seafloor — evidence of the buried landscape, reminiscent of the mythical lost Atlantis.

The researchers traced eight major rivers, and core samples, taken from the rock beneath the ocean floor, revealed pollen and coal, evidence of land-dwelling life. But above and below these deposits, they found evidence of a marine environment, including tiny fossils, indicating the land rose above the sea and then subsided — “like a terrestrial sandwich with marine bread,” White said.

The burning scientific question, according to White, is what made this landscape rise up, then subside within 2.5 million years? “From a geological perspective, that is a very short period of time,” he said.

The giant hot ripple

He and colleagues have a theory pointing to an upwelling of material through the Earth’s mantle beneath the North Atlantic Ocean called the Icelandic Plume. (The plume is centered under Iceland.)

The plume works like a pipe carrying hot magma from deep within the Earth to right below the surface, where it spreads out like a giant mushroom, according to White. Sometimes the material is unusually hot, and it spreads out in a giant hot ripple.

The researchers believe that such a giant hot ripple pushed the lost landscape above the North Atlantic, then as the ripple passed, the land fell back beneath the ocean.

This theory is supported by other new research showing that the chemical composition of rocks in the V-shaped ridges on the ocean floor around Iceland contains a record of hot magma surges like this one. Although this study, led by Heather Poore, also one of White’s students, looked back only about 30 million years, White said he is hopeful ongoing research will pinpoint an older ridge that recorded this particular hot ripple.

Because similar processes have occurred elsewhere on the planet, there are likely many other lost landscapes like this one. Since this study was completed, the researchers have found two more recent, but less spectacular, submerged landscapes above the first one, White said.

Both studies appear today (July 10) in the journal Nature Geoscience.

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The Real Story of Vero Beach Wasn’t Ancient Mammoth Art but Rather; Ancient Mammoth Humans and Mammoth Archaeological Misdirection

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, Giants in Those Days, s8int.com, Science, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jun 24 2011


There could be no better metaphor for modern science, particularly archaeology than Dr. Zaius from the movie “Planet of the Apes”.

When that Minister of Science found the talking human doll in a cave which would have overturned his scientific paradigm he had the cave sealed and the eyewitnesses arrested.

This week, the Huffington Post published a story about ancient mammoth art discovered at Vero Beach Florida which managed to both bury the lead and to seal the real archeological experience of North America in a cave, metaphorically speaking.

The original article announcing this discovery was published in 2009 so it’s a bit of a mystery why this article is being published now. (We had our own article last year). However, here is an offensive quote from the article:

“While prehistoric art depicting animals with trunks has been found in Europe, this may be the first in the Western Hemisphere, researchers report Wednesday in the Journal of Archaeological Science”

Seriously? Are you kidding? There have been literally hundreds of prior discoveries of “prehistoric” art in the Americas depicting animals with trunks. The problem was, mainstream archeology had decided and pronounced that elephants or “animals with trunks” had not lived in North America and so discounted all evidence to the contrary.

A few examples of art depicting animals with trunks are shown at the top of the page. Another famous example is a pictograph discovered in the Grand Canyon in 1924 by Samuel Hubbard Jr. along with dinosaur and human footprints, petrified giant human bodies and pictographs showing dinosaurs. This was the Doheny Expedition and Hubbard had brought along Charles Gilmore, Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology of the Museum of Natural History to certify his discoveries.

In the Vero Beach find we had the same pedantic initial skepticism but this time the paradigm was unable to relegate the piece to the cave and it has been grudgingly accepted. Now the field is trying to feign excitement about it. And what of all those other pieces of trunked art that have been discovered over the past three hundred years? Can you imagine that now that science has to admit that the mammoth was here in ancient times after all that nevertheless this is the first and only representation of the huge creature ever found?

As to burying the lead, Vero Beach, Florida first became famous and controversial back in 1917 when then State Geologist and later Director of the Bureau of Economic Geology, Elias Sellards and colleague reported that they had found numerous bones, fossils, weapons etc. of “modern” men from 10 to 12 feet tall, along with the bones of extinct creatures and giant reptiles in Pleistocene strata. Given that scientific report and the controversy it engendered, why in the world is anyone talking about an etching of a mammoth on bone?

When it comes to the science known as Archaeology, or at least to its practioners, one can learn more from the mammoth paradigm supporting misdirections than one can learn from an incised bone portraying a mammoth…..s8int.com

GIANTS INHABITED FLORIDA IN THE YEAR 123,084 B. C.
State Geologist Sellards and Prof. Hay Concur in Opinion After Study of Fossil Found at Vero-
Say Men Grew 12 Feet Tall.
New Smyrna Daily News Jan. 5, 1917

Background

“Elias Howard Sellards, earned his bachelor’s and master’s degrees in 1899 and 1900, respectively, at the University of Kansas at Lawrence. He was awarded both a scholarship and a fellowship at Yale University, where he completed his doctorate in paleontology in 1903.

After graduating from Yale, Sellards taught geology and mineralogy for a year at Rutgers College, before becoming a professor of geology and zoology at the University of Florida in 1904. In 1907 he was named the first state geologist of Florida and held that position until 1918.” University of Texas Source

He was serving in that position when he found giant human bones near Vero Beach, Florida. He was later to serve as director of the Texas Memorial Museum from 1938 to 1957. In 1932 he became the director of the Bureau of Economic Geology, the source of this information. His discoveries were very controversial both because of the strata where the bones were discovered and because of their size.

Dr. OP Hay, co-discoverer was from the Carnegie Institution.

Smyrna Daily News Jan. 5, 1917–“That human beings inhabited the North American continent more than 125,000 years ago has been conclusively proven through a recent discovery in this state by E. H. Sellards, state geologist, and Prof. Oliver P. Hay who have made a study of the fossil. Though their opinions are not fully concurred in by other scientists, they are positive that their researches have been thorough and there is no room for a mistake.

The discovery was made several months ago, and though nothing of a definite nature had been given out until recently, it is now officially stated that human bones intermingled with those of the mastodon, saber tooth tiger, and many other extinct animals that formerly ranged this hemisphere have been found. The deposit was found near Vero.

That the human beings were of enormous size is evidenced by the bones. It is thought that some were ten or twelve feet in height. Some excellent specimens of the skeleton of these gigantic men have been found, some of them locked in the deadly embrace of great animals, with strange weapons of bone clutched in skeleton hands a foot long.”

Sellards and Hay must have known that their professional reputations would be at stake after such an announcement. Sellards did leave for Texas the following year. But to claim that human remains had been found in North America in the Pleistocene period and of a size that science claims never existed was unprecedented and incredible-twice over. No wonder they waited several months prior to the announcement.

They supposed that so many ancient animals had been found in association with the human bones because they had died together “locked in deadly combat”

A group of six; including anthropologists and geologists quickly arrived on site and eventually wrote a report which was published in Jan-Feb issue of the Journal of Geology. In that report, Sellards is quoted as saying that this was the oldest deposit from which human remains had ever been taken. Note that what Mr. Sellards meant is that these were not the bones of some ape being passed off as a pre-human.

The article continues on: If this research proves to be all that the scientists think it is, the world at large will be astounded to know that many things which had long been suspected are true. (There were giants in those days?)

There are many who believe Bering straight was crossed ages ago by inhabitants of European countries who probably had to flee across the Stnnovoi Mountains of Siberia.

The claims that Sellards and O.P. Hay were making did not sit well with many scientists and the debate raged for many years with the paradigm working to show that the bones really came from a much higher and thus geologically younger strata (intrusion). (Of course, I do not personally agree with the geological timescale the current scientific paradigm advances, either.)

One can find many articles about these discoveries by searching Google for Vero Beach and the Antiquity of man. Rarely if ever do we see Sellards’ claims about the stature of the ancient men addressed. He did not leave himself without testimony however, as photographs of some of the bones, human and animal can be found online at the State of Florida Library website.

Left:Ulna of man, #5895, anterior view]
Publication info: 1916.
Physical descrip:
1 photoprint : b&w ; 5 x 7 in.
Series Title:
(Florida Geological Survey Collection.)
General Note: Used in 8th Annual report, pl.18, fig.2. Found in stratum 3 at Vero.
Date/place captured:
Photographed in February of 1916.

Tibia (right) of man, #5196, and right ulna (left) Canis dirus, #5451] [picture]
Greene, E. Peck.

This source: Lists many news articles and provides other research material descriptions and locations

Sellards defended his findings in among other reports; FLORIDA STATE GEOLOGICAL SURVEY.
E. H. SELLARDS, PH. D., STATE GEOLOGIST. NINTH ANNUAL REPORT.

His Report Conclusion: “The human remains and artifacts are contemporaneous with extinct species of mammals, birds, reptiles, and at least one extinct species of plants, as well as with other animal and plant species that do not at the present time extend their range into Florida. The age of the deposits containing these fossils according to the accepted interpretation of faunas and floras is Pleistocene.”


Epilogue: University of Florida: Epic carving on fossil bone found in Vero Beach

In what a top Florida anthropologist is calling “the oldest, most spectacular and rare work of art in the Americas,” an amateur Vero Beach fossil hunter has found an ancient bone etched with a clear image of a walking mammoth or mastodon.

According to leading experts from the University of Florida, the remarkable find demonstrates with new and startling certainty that humans coexisted with prehistoric animals more than 12,000 years ago in this fossil- rich region of the state.

Source

Bonus Material: Quote from 1884 Re: The Elephant in North America

MAN A CONTEMPORARY WITH THE AMERICAN ELEPHANT.


Perhaps those who are of the opinion that man dwelt here in ancient times contemporaneously with some species of the extinct American elephant, may see in the close proximity and association of the remains of these huge mammalians with the pottery of the ancient Americans, some evidence favoring their theory.

In fact, the huge elephant mound in Grant County, Wisconsin, which must have been made by a people familiar with elephants; and the engravings of elephants on tablets found in mounds; and the recent discovery in the quarry at Carson. Nevada, of human and elephant foot-marks, one human foot- mark being obliterated by the, subsequent passage of an elephant, the foot mark of the latter showing up beautifully, would seem to be evidence sufficient to establish the fact beyond a doubt, that man and some species of American elephant dwelt in ancient America together.

Prof. G-. Frederick Wright conjectures that the so-called human footprints at Carson, Nevada, were those of a bear, made long by lapping of the tracks of the hind feet into those of the fore feet. He thinks some such supposition necessary to account for the large size of the tracks—nineteen inches in length, six inches across the broadest part of the heel, and seven inches at the base of the toes.

He forgets that there were giants in those days, as is proven by the giant skeletons exhumed from mounds in various parts of America. And then, Mr. Wright’s conclusions do not at all tally with the description of these tracks, by those who carefully examined them, which description shows that; these impressions clearly indicate rights and lefts, and deviate to either side from a straight line about as much as the ordinary step of a man. * *

The hollow under the instep is remarkably prominent, and characteristic of the human foot, as is also the curvature around the toes. The impression is exactly like that of an Indian moccasin pressed into shallow mud. No separate impressions of toes are visible, from the fact that the whole interior of the impression clearly appears as if a sandal had been worn. The sharp line corresponding to the cut edge of a piece of hide is visible everywhere.”

Perhaps instead of a mere sandal, a rawhide shoe, with a sole on it, was worn. This would account for other things noticed. The reporter to the New York Weekly Herald of Nov. 18, 1882, further says:

“I was shown by Prof. Harkness, of San Francisco, the tracing of the sole of a shoe, worn by a Sonoran, which measures exactly eighteen and a half inches, just half an inch less than the fossil footprints.”

He further says of the fossil footprints:
“The straddle or distance between rights and lefts varies from almost nothing to sixteen inches. Neither of the above measurements is remarkable when we consider the proportions of the individual, as indicated bv the size of the feet.”

Besides all this evidence that they are human footmarks, is it not more than probable that, if they were those of an animal, the lap of the hind upon the fore-feet tracks would show somewhere, in so many tracks—over one hundred?

Wilford’s Microcosm: Volume 4 – Page 269 1884

s8int-saint

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Underwater Cities and Monuments: Submerged “8,000 Year Old Civilization” on Konkan Coast, India?

Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jun 09 2011

Photo: 8000-year-old advanced civilization in Konkan Coast?

One stretch of underwater wall off the Konkan Coast, western India.
The total wall exceeds 24 kilometers (approx. 15 miles)

Source: dnaindia.com
Published: Thursday, May 26, 2011

Are these man-made structures — walls?

Did the Konkan coast from Shrivardhan in Raigad to Vengurla in Sindhudurga host a human habitat around 8000 years ago? Did that population have well-developed engineering skills? Was there a unique Konkan culture in existence in 6000BC?

A new archaeological discovery, below sea level along the Konkan coast, could give answers to these questions. And explorers say the answer could well be a big ‘Yes!’

Researchers have found a wall-like structure that is 24 kilometres long, 2.7 metres tall, and around 2.5 metres wide. The structure shows uniformity in its construction.

“The structure is not continuous throughout the 225 kilometres from Shrivardhan to Raigad, but it is uniform,” said Dr Ashok Marathe, professor, department of archaeology, Postgraduate and Research Institute, Deccan College, Pune.

“It has been found three metres below the present sea level. It has been constructed on the ancient sand beach, which was taken as the base for the construction. Considering the uniformity of the structure, it was obvious that the structure is man-made and not natural.”

The joint expedition carried by Deccan College and the central government’s department of science and technology, was in progress from 2005.

“We were actually studying the impacts of tsunamis and earthquakes on the western coast when we first found this structure in Valneshwar,” said Marathe. “Then we started talking with the locals and fisherfolks and we got news about more such structures below water.”

Marathe added that, the uniformity also shows that the people who built it belong to the same culture from Shrivardhan to Vengurla.
However, deciding the age of the structure was done on the basis of sea level mapping.

“There have been extensive studies about the sea water coming inside the land,” said Marathe. “The wall’s base, that is ancient sand, is about six metres below the present sea level. Based on the calculations, experts from the National Institute of Oceanography found the age of the wall as around 6000 BC.”

According to him, the sea was away from its present coastline in 6000 BC and this wall could have been an effort to prevent the sea water from coming inside the human habitat.

The discovery has raised a number of questions.

How were these huge stones of Laterite and Deccan Trap variety transported to the coast?

What exactly was the purpose behind building the wall?

If the date of the walls is true then is it from around the same time as the Indus Valley Civilisation?

Why has there been no mention of this civilisation till now?

Marathe, who will retire in July 2011, has asked more people to come forward to take his work ahead and to try to find answer to these questions.

See Also Underwater Monuments and Cities Section

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Dinosaur and Human Interaction in Our Times (the New York Times, LA Times, Chicago-Sun Times etc. Historical Newspapers)

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jun 03 2011

Photo: Dr. Requena reports finding artifacts of an unknown, advanced civilization in Venezuela who had sculpted extinct creatures incuding several versions of the diplodocus dinosaur. Modern Mechanix, 1934

by Chris Parker, Copyright 2011
Quoted Headlines and news content in this article are in a blue font

“Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: He calleth them all by names by the greatness of His might, for that He is strong in power; not one faileth” (Isaiah 40:26).

Charles Darwin’s book; “The Origin of the Species; was written back in 1859. The word “dinosaur” had been coined a few years earlier, in 1841 by Sir Richard Owen.

I began a review of the dinosaur and man controversy in the press after that time thinking that perhaps the world of science and news reporting would have still been rather naive and innocent for a time and still willing to report things as they were discovered-without the filter and hold that Darwinism currently holds over both.

Actually, the Darwin free “honeymoon period” proved to be remarkably short, however, scientists did make reports during this period that would ruin the reputation of anyone making such “scientific” claims today.

Some say that you can’t prove a negative; what is true is that when you make a negative proposition, i.e. “blue fairies don’t exist”, the breadth of that statement is universal, while the positive (opposing) side of that argument, i.e. “blue fairies do exist” only has to be shown to be true in one place in the universe to be correct and to simultaneously prove the “negative proposition” incorrect.

Photo: Mesopotamian Cylinder Seal showing sauropods from 300 B.C. The Lovre.

Another example of this type is the proposition that man and dinosaur never interacted. In fact, according to science, they missed each other by 65 million years. This negative proposition must be universal to be true; that is, man and dinosaur never interacted at any time or in any place in this universe.

For the opposing proposition to be true; that man and dinosaur did coexist- it need only be proved that they in fact, did interact at least in one instance at one time and at one place anywhere in the universe.

But we have proof of much more than a single instance in the newspapers and magazines that existed prior to the complete establishment of the Darwin filter.

Advanced Civilization in Venezuela Lived with Dinosaurs
Special Correspondence to the New York Times, Caracas, June 5, 1932 PUBLISHED JUNE, 12 1932
DATES EARLY MAN BACK 8,000 YEARS
Dr. Requena Holds Discoveries Indicate Venezuela Was Civilization’s Cradle
Found Fossilized Skulls—Lake Valencia Relics Show That Makers Were Familiar With Prehistoric Animals

In the early 1930’s Dr. Rafael Requena was an anthropologist affiliated with Academy of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, National Library, National Congress, Central University of Venezuela.

From the above named article:

“Evidence that Venezuela was the cradle of civilization is offered in a volume on his archaeological discoveries which is being published by Dr. Rafael Requena, private secretary to President General Gomez. The publication of this book will lift the veil of secrecy which has shrouded Dr. Requena’s discoveries since they were announced briefly a year ago.

Most startling among the relics unearthed by Dr. Requena from the ancient tombs that dot the shores of Lake Valencia are images of pre-historic animals.

Among these, well sculptured in clay and kiln baked, are models of the diplodocus, a four footed monster with a goose-shaped body, surmounted by a dorsal fin, the neck of a giraffe and the jaws of a crocodile; a gliptodante, a squat four-footed beast with a hideous frog shaped head, bulging eyes and two rows of humps along its back; the prehistoric marine turtle and its equally great land-loving brother and carved from stone, the head of a hadrosaurus.

Alongside these relics were discovered the jaw bone of a dinosaur and pieces of the armor plate of the hadrosaurus
”

Photo:Closeup and comparison of one of Requena’s sauropods. From photo at top of page.


The article goes on to mention that the skulls of the people found at the location had been fossilized. Dr. Requena noted that there appeared to be a high degree of civilization that preceded all other South American civilizations. Dr. Requena, assuming that the current scientific thinking re the age of the dinosaurs was correct, and finding numerous examples of sculptured dinosaurs, reasoned that the civilization and the dinosaurs must have been from 250 million years prior.

In his book he endeavored to link the ancient civilization to Atlantis.

The April, 1934 issue of Modern Mechanix, ran an article about Dr. Requena and his archaelogical discoveries in an article entitled; “Scientists Find Traces of Two Lost Continents”. The pictures that accompany this portion of our article on dinosaurs and man in historical press accounts comes from the Modern Mechanix article.

From that article:


“DOWN through the ages, man has hung to the words of Plato. For Plato told of a great continent, Atlantis by name, which slipped under the waters of the sea, carrying with it an entire civilization.
Recent discoveries point to the fact that approximately 250,000,000 years ago, South America, Africa, India, Australia and a great portion of the Antarctic region were a single continent.

Similar discoveries reveal the existence, until about the same period, of a North Atlantis, a sort of super-continent, which ran from the present western shores of North America to the British Isles, and possibly connected, by a few small peninsulas, with Europe.

Mysterious prehistoric rock writing, recently found in Venezuela by Dr. Rafael Requena, is believed to be the work of people who lived on the lost South Atlantis. In addition to the writings, Dr. Requena has found many relics of a by-gone culture.

They include small statues of humans, with males and females easily distinguished and replicas of animals, many of which resemble the strange dinosaurs which have been dug up in other portions of the world.”

Well, that’s it, right?

The one instance in the world of scientifically verified interaction between man and dinosaur that disproves the proposition that man and dinosaur never lived together? After all, there wasn’t just a single piece that perhaps could have been misinterpreted; there were several sculptures of “diplodocuses” in various poses and sculptures of other dinosaurs and extinct creatures; not discovered by some nameless amateur but by a scientist?

Unfortunately, not as far as “science” is concerned.


On the same continent, over 17,000 and counting “Ica Stones” discovered in 1966 near Ica, Peru; many displaying drawings of dinosaurs and technology such as telescopes etc. and 32,000 Acambaro figurines, many in the shapes of dinosaurs and other extinct or fantastic creatures discovered in 1944 in Acambaro, Mexico have also been ignored by the scientific community.

Dinosaurs and Man in the Gobi Desert

“Roy Chapman Andrews (January 26, 1884 – March 11, 1960) was an American explorer, adventurer and naturalist who became the director of the American Museum of Natural History. He is primarily known for leading a series of expeditions through the fragmented China of the early 20th century into the Gobi Desert and Mongolia. The expeditions made important discoveries and brought the first-known fossil dinosaur eggs to the museum.” Wikipedia


This next series of articles deals with the discoveries of Roy Chapman Andrews in the Gobi desert. Andrews was a well known adventurer scientist of his day whose adventures often made the front pages of the New York Times and newspapers and magazines across the country and the world. It is important to realize that Andrews was not outside of the scientific mainstream but was a part of it. He was always associated with the American Museum of Natural History.

Explorer Finds Remarkable Tools of Stone-Age People
Roy Chapman Andrews, Back from China Describes Prehistoric Life
Miami Herald, August 25, 1925

“Stone implements and weapons of a race of men who lived thousands of years ago among sand dunes on the shore of a lake since swallowed up by the Gobi desert have been found far in the interior of Mongolia by the third Asiatic expedition of the American Museum of Natural History




These primitive men bored the shells and made ornaments of the eggs laid by the dinosaur, the giant reptile that roamed the Asiatic uplands some 10,000,000 years ago
.”

In case you missed it, Chapman believes that man lived with dinosaurs in ages past because they had made ornaments out of dinosaur eggs, something that could only be accomplished with unfossilized dinosaur eggs!

Andrews Expedition
Glasgow Herald, September 9, 1925

“Among the most unique of these discoveries were the various clutches of dinosaur’s eggs, which were unearthed to the number of forty this year and thirty last.



.Fragmentary dinosaur’s eggs figure also among the human relics, for a number of pieces were found which had been cut in regular shapes, presumably to form ornaments for prehistoric belles.”

Humans Coeval with Dinosaur (Coeval: of the same or equal age, antiquity, or duration)
The Spokesman-Review – Aug 19, 1925

Photo: The Mongolians drilled and cracked dinosaur egg shells as well as ostrich egg shells to make jewelry. Ostrich eggshell jewelry is shown here.

“
These primitive men bored the shells and made ornaments of the eggs left by the dinosaur
..They used for the same purpose the egg shells of a gigantic ostrich, long ago extinct”.

Mr. Andrews went on to date the age of the Mongolian dinosaur civilization back to 25 million years ago as science came to move the age of the dinosaurs back further in time. Clearly the Mongolians were coeval with the dinosaurs whenever it was that they lived. Calling them primitive even though no human remains were found was their way of trying to preserve some kind of evolutionary order.

Additional Articles

Only 50,000 Years Old
The Meriden Daily Journal – Jun 18, 1925

“Moscow—Two human skeletons of the Neanderthal type, believed to be at least 50,000 years old recently found in a cave near Crimea.

The skeletons of dinosaurs, hyenas and bears were also found in the cave.”

Prehistoric Game Found
Monsters With Which Ante-dilluvian Man Contended
The Turners Falls Reporter – Dec 16, 1908

“The remains of the Dryopitheous or fossil man discovered on the Bengawan River, in Java mixed as they were with fossil bones of reptiles of the Cainozoic (SIC) age, and lying in the cretaceous strata, clearly prove that man was contemporary with the later of the giant Saurians.


Moreover, the discovery of the Nampa image, a piece of handiwork found in the cretaceous strata in Ada county, Idaho would imply that he had attained some slight degree of art. Assuming then that man was living in the Cainozoic (SIC) age, the question is, how did he survive his acquaintanceship with the gigantic Saurians
.”

Confirms Story of Prehistoric Finds in Kenya Colony—U.S. Anthropologist Says Bones Prove Theory of Man’s First Habitat
In Stone Age Deposit
The Montreal Gazette – Sep 24, 1927

“
.the Cutler dinosaur expedition to Tanganyika, who in six weeks found seven skulls at Nakeru in a Stone Age deposit, and also unearthed a complete skeleton of a six foot man buried twelve feet deep with more than 100 stone tools. Dr. Collie gave a pledge to the discoverer not to discuss the details of the Kenya find until after Dr. Leaky (yes that Dr. Leaky) has published them this fall.

He stressed the importance of the discovery because of the apparently inexhaustible supply of these remains, and the fact that traces of dinosaurs were found. Mr. Leaky was acting for the Royal Society and the Cambridge School of Anthropology, where he is a lecturer.”

The Sunday Tribune – Mar 15, 1925

Petrified Footprints of Man Assured Museum
Evidence of Human Life on American Continent Millions of Years Ago Offers Basis for Speculation
The Deseret News – Jul 24, 1934


“Here are the footprints of the Huntington Man claimed by scientists to have roamed the wilds of Utah nearly 200 million years ago. You will note that the foot widens out at the toes, indicating that the owner of these footprints must have had to walk on soft or miry ground. The prints are almost a foot long, and more than five inches across the toes. The deep mark at the side of the footprints was probably made by the head of a flint spear, resting on marshy ground.


.If these footprints were made when the sand of this period were soft then man must have been there to make them! So if you can, envision wild and woolly men riding tamed herbiverous dinosaurs racing up and down the country

”

In this gentler, less dogmatic Darwinist time, science appeared to be willing to admit that man and dinosaur interacted. The time difficulty enters in because they still accepted the Darwinist geological time scale. When was sandstone formed they believed; 200 million years ago. Therefore they reasoned, man must have been alive 200 million years ago-along with the dinosaurs.

The truth is that the rock formed and the man left his prints and dinosaurs all lived within the last few thousand years.

Unearthed Image Presents a Puzzle
The Calgary Daily Herald – Aug 6, 1924

“A rock image lately unearthed near grand Lake, high in the Colorado Rockies, presents a puzzle. It is a blue granite stone weighing 66 pounds. But what makes it remarkable is that it is covered with carvings indicating a very early period of human life.


The mammoth animals outlined are contemporaneous with the Cro-Magnon age. Among those pictured are prehistoric dinosaurs and mastodons. The main carving represents an early man with hands that have but three fingers. The flat nose pictured is generally associated with a race preceding the Aztecs according to J.A. Jeancon, curator of the Colorado Historical and Natural History Society.” Article

Oldest Footprints in the World
The Portsmouth Sunday Times – Feb 14, 1931

“A number of clearly defined footprints in solid rock have just been discovered in France which are believed to date back from two to three million years and perhaps record the mysterious first man. The face of the rock in which the prints are embodied is criss-crossed with the steps of dinosaurs and similar prehistoric animals and indicates that a terrific struggle once occurred there.

The imprints were, of course made when the rock was soft and then slowly hardened and were preserved for all time. The amazing discovery was made at Bagnoles-de-l’Onrne in Normandy by Dr. Marcel Morin, a well known French scientist.


..Archeologists have been much impressed by this discovery. As a result of their investigations it is suggested that man first appeared in the earlier periods of the Tertiary Age of Mammals, which ranges loosely between two and sixty million years ago.”

How Science Responds to Its Own Discoveries

Nature is Interesting
Footprints in the Rock
Toledo Blade – Nov 1, 1950

By William Holt, a retired member of the faculty of Bowling Green State University and was recognized as one of the leading geologists in the nation.

“Occasionally peculiar shaped depressions in the surface of the bedrock have caused some persons with abnormal imagination, and a lack of geological training, to “see things” in the rock. Human footprints, hand impressions, and even tracks of dinosaurs or other prehistoric animals are recognized (?).

A most interesting case of a foot-print in a slab of surface rock was recently called to my attention. The footprint was in sandstone, and was so real (?) that to some at least there was no doubt that it was actually made by man. The main question seemed to be how many millions of years old it was.

Although I did not see the original, a clear photograph of it was quite sufficient in this case; and I attempted to make the answer clear to the questioners by the following statements:

First, that no human or animal could possibly make a deep imprint in solid, hard rock.

Second, that this particular Ohio bedrock was formed many millions of years before even primitive man existed. Hence no human foot ever could have stepped on the loose sediments of which this rock later was formed.”


William Holt

William is a materialist “scientist” and thus has trained himself not to believe his own lying eyes. In later years he got himself into trouble by reasoning that the IRS didn’t exist and therefore he didn’t have to pay taxes.

In Conclusion:

August 8, 1955 The Le Mars-Globe

“A skeleton found in a gravel pit here—a fairly complete skeleton, has been declared by Dr. Reynold Ruppe, state University of Iowa archaeologist, to be the remains of an ice-age man, who lived near the south edge of the glaciers which once covered Plymouth
County.

The Monona County ice-age man, who lived at least 10,000 years ago, ..was not like a modern Indian. He’s something older—and something new.

Bones of a dinosaur were found in the same deposit—about 10 feet deeper.

At first this led to speculation that the dinosaur was the aborigine’s pet, but that didn’t hang together. Dinosaurs disappeared from the earth a million years before the first, man showed up.

So the dinosaur must have left his bones a long, long time before the man died, was drowned or trapped in quicksand at the spot near, Turin where his skeleton was recovered.”

The reader sitting on the edge of his seat when he initially began to read this was quickly calmed by the explanation that this could not be what it might have seemed to be– he was reminded that there was no evidence that dinosaurs and man ever lived together! Science!

Though this scene in various forms, in various venues and with a variety of potential proofs has no doubt been played out thousands of times in thousands of locales, the Atheist continues to ask “where is the evidence” or “why hasn’t evidence of this interaction ever been found” and many Christians wonder also while nevertheless holding on to their beliefs. The relevant information is being suppressed-sometimes “automatically” because it doesn’t fit the paradigm.

See Also
Man and Dinosaur Co-Existence Proof Accepted by Science–Giant Footprints in Stone–Giant Humans in Stone–All Verified by Orthodox Scientist After 30 Years of Ridicule

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After the Flood; A Graveyard Planet-Video

Church of Darwin, Religious, s8int.com, Science, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
May 07 2011

We Stand on the Shoulders of Those Who Came Before Us –but Also on Their Heads, Backs, Stomachs and Feet! (and etc.) : Prologue Of all that lived prior to the flood; (flora and fauna) w e have burned their bodies or their remains for thousands of years for fuel. We utilize them in our cars and our machines. Their Detritus in their current forms are used to build houses and walls and streets and as binding agents. The mountains that we climb are made up of the remains of microscopic dead animals.

The chemicals that made up the bones of the pre-flood living are used to fertilize our crops and gardens. Their remains may even be worn around our necks or on our fingers as jewelry. This planet is a vast graveyard and the life that existed before the flood is buried or entombed all around us-and are mute witnesses to Genesis.

Movie Made from this s8int.com Article

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Did Dinosaurs Interact with Man Under Blue South American Skies? If You Believe the Darwinist Timescale Applies; Viewer Discretion is Advised!

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, Religious, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, Uncategorized, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Apr 25 2011

By Chris Parker, s8int.com Copyright 2011
Slide/Movie Transcript: This article is the Transcript to the 15 minute video below. If you want to see all four of the “dinosaurs” we discuss (Ancient Central American), plus the comparisons with modern depictions, then you need to either view the video or the Slide Presentation

Romans 1 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

If Science is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world, as defined by Wikipedia, then Christianity, if true has nothing to fear from science. Question: does science as currently pursued have anything to fear from God?

And how have the advances in modern science impacted the veracity of the Genesis account?

The Universe cannot have been eternal and cannot be eternal because entropy exists. The universe is winding down. At some point then, the universe was created or came into being. The first law of physics; conservation of matter and energy tells us that matter cannot be created or destroyed. Thus this universe exists outside of natural law.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE_P-Jy0TmsT

Watch at Youtube

The cells of everything alive contain a complex language known as DNA that directs all activity of the cell and provides the building blocks for life itself. The information in a single cell of bacteria is staggering; enough to fill every book in your local library several times over. Your body has trillions of cells.

Our experience tells us that language is the product of intelligence.

Significant areas of disagreement between Genesis and science include the origin of life and the age of the earth. Science has not discovered how life began; in fact there are literally hundreds of competing and mutually exclusive “scientific” theories concerning life’s origin. Science insists that whatever the process life had to have begun billions of years ago. Genesis tells us that God created all life-in six days.

It would seem then that the age of the universe is important in the contest between science and Genesis. Some Christians have attempted to integrate their Bible beliefs along with the extreme ages given by science. Yet, there is scientific evidence that the universe is young. Robert Gentry PhD has found Polonium Halos in granite rock around the world. Yet polonium has a half life of only about three minutes. If the magna had been cooling over millions of years as science claims these “halos” should have been destroyed.

The moon’s orbit averages a distance of 238,855 miles away from the earth. The moon moves away from the earth every year by 1.5 inches. If the universe is truly 4.5 billion years old, then the moon should have moved an additional 106,500 miles away.

One of the most pervasive challenges to Genesis it seems is the age of the dinosaurs. The Genesis account would testify that dinosaurs were created at the same time as the other creatures. Yet, dinosaurs do not currently exist.

Is science correct when it claims that dinosaurs died out more than 65 million years ago despite the fact that nearly all ancient cultures had memories of large reptiles known as dragons? The dinosaur problem is one that seems to support an old earth age and at the very least convert the Genesis account into a non-literal creation story-or so it would seem to some.

No creature is more thoroughly described in scripture than the dinosaurs behemoth and leviathan at the end of the book of Job. However, even some Christians assert that the scripture there is only describing a hippo.

But something is amiss; for example; Argentinosaurus, a titanosaurus whose fossil remains were found in Argentina, was estimated to weigh up to 100 tons and to have a length of between 90 and 115 feet. The hippopotamus stands at 4.5 to 5 feet tall and 13 feet long. These creatures are shown to scale here. If one believes that God created all creatures then behemoth had to be a dinosaur!

Fortunately, this is something that we can investigate ourselves. Did our ancient ancestors, unfettered by Darwinism, make images of dinosaurs in such a way as to prove that they lived among them? If not, how would Christians reconcile this lack of evidence with a young earth and special creation?

Ancient Central America

Ancient Central America was the land of the Corobici, Cariari, Chorotega, Diquis, BriBri, Chibcha, Chiriqui, Caribe, Nicoya, Guayabo, Talamanca, and among others! The ancient American pre Hispanic civilizations spanned the time period of between 2000 B.C. and 1600 A.D. and because of advanced farming techniques their cities preceded the cities and civilizations of Europe.

They left a testimony in the form of magnificent art, artifacts and stone monuments. The creatures that they memorialized in their art were expressive, intricate and at times very realistic.

Diquis Culture, Reptile Pendant
The Diquis culture of Costa Rica is best known for the giant stone balls that have been found there. This story is about a gold pendant created by the Diquis culture.

Plesiosaurs have been traditionally divided into two major sub-groups; the long-necked, small headed “elasmosaurs” and the short-necked, larger headed “pliosaurids. These sub groups are somewhat arbitrary.

Dolichorhynchops (top, left of this post) was one of those short necked, large headed pliosaurs. Dolichorhynchops (dolly) is thought to have grown up to 18 feet long and to have dined on squid and other soft fishes. The remains of this animal were found in North America. According to current scientific belief, this creature became extinct about 65 million years ago.

Here is a soft plush toy version of Dolichorhynchops from Everything Dinosaur.

Here .is a “Reptile Pendant” from the Diquis culture, made of gold from Costa Rica, circa AD 500-1550. The source is the Robert Dowling gallery. “All works of art are guaranteed to be authentic and as described, unconditionally, for as long as you own them.”

A closer look at this “reptile pendant” reveals that it is in fact a depiction of one of the short necked plesiosaurs, known as pliosauridae.

Here it is compared to Dolichorhynchops and to pliosaur, another possibility. In any case, the depiction is clear. Here is an animal declared by science to be extinct for 65 million years accurately depicted in gold by a civilization less than 2000 years old.

Science appears to be off by about 65 million years. Score one for Genesis.

Alligator Ware

W. H. Holmes in his 19th century book the “Ancient Art of the Province of Chiriquí”, defined a class of clay objects as alligator ware. These objects were said to feature an alligator (reptile) motif. “The designs range from the rather realistic to the most highly conventionalized representations of the animal. A small number of these vessels are modeled to resemble in form this same reptile.” 
C. V. HARTMAN

Even as early as the late 1800’s Darwinism had caused scientists to be circumspect about “reptiles” and attributed many reptile or dragon depictions as depictions of the alligator. In fact, some of the depictions really were representations of the alligator.
Here are a few examples of the “alligator” motive from the 1888 book by W.H. Holmes. Some may see the alligator in these depictions but it seems that the ancient Costa Ricans might have been familiar with the dinosaur. These however are not the object of specific interest here.

The ChiriquĂ­ culture was an ancient Central American culture that flourished between 800 and 1200 A.D. ChiriquĂ­ means valley of the moon.

The American Anthropologist, Volume 9 of the American Anthropological Association, 1907, published a picture of ChiriquĂ­ alligator ware which had been excavated from a gravesite near San Jose, Costa Rica. The piece in question was obtained for the Carnegie Museum from Dr George Grant MacCurdy, of the Yale University Museum and is furthered described as a tripod vase.

According to Wikipedia, “Ceratosaurus was a fairly typical theropod, with a large head, short forelimbs, robust hind legs, and a long tail.” The name means “horned lizard”, in reference to the horn on its nose. It was characterized by large jaws with blade-like teeth, a large, blade-like horn on the snout and a pair of hornlets over the eyes.

Uniquely among theropods, Ceratosaurus possessed dermal armor, in the form of small osteoderms running down the middle of its back. The tail of Ceratosaurus comprised about half of the body’s total length. Of course, ceratosaurus and his bi-pedal dinosaur brethren supposedly went extinct 65 million years ago.

But did they? Let’s look more closely at this alligator ware from the Chiriquí culture and remember the description of ceratosaurus; bi-pedal, snout and eyelet horns, dermal armor in the form of osteoderms running down his back. Osteoderms are bony deposits forming scales, plates or other structures in the dermal layers of the skin.

It doesn’t appear to represent an alligator at all. Instead it looks much more like a theropod dinosaur and several are shown here for comparison. In fact, the horns and the dermal armor make it appear to be a specific type of theropod, the meat eating and ferocious ceratosaurus—or a close cousin.

Science appears to be off on its extinction by about 65 million years.

What do you think? Alligator or dinosaur?

South American Idol

In March of 2011, Paleontologists announced the discovery of a flat headed dinosaur dubbed O. quilombensis in Brazil. The dinosaur was thought to be related to the spinosaurids. “Spinosaurid heads in general resemble [those of] alligators—that’s a common feature,” Kellner a paleontologist stated.

A more well known and possibly related flat headed dinosaur was Suchomimus (“crocodile mimic”) which also had a flat, alligator like head. And yes, flat-headed and alligator like dinosaurs are thought to have gone extinct 65 million years ago.
These alligator headed and flat headed dinosaurs put me in mind of something I had seen in an old book.

Ometepe is an island formed by two volcanoes rising from Lake Nicaragua in the Republic of Nicaragua . The peoples there inhabited the island it is thought beginning from 2000 to 500 B.C.

In the book; The Native Races, Volume 4, By Hubert Howe Bancroft, published in 1886, on page 39 of the section; Nicaraguan Antiquities, we find the following quote and drawing.

“Ometepec, rich in pottery and other relics, and reported also to contain idols, has yielded to actual observation only the small animal couchant (couchant means in a lying position) represented in the cut.

It was secretly worshipped by the natives for many years, even in modern times, until this unorthodox practice was discovered and checked by zealous priests. This animal idol was about fourteen inches long and eight inches in height.”

The creature identified as an “idol” appears to be some type of reptile. Its length of legs and other features suggests that it is not an alligator or a crocodile. In fact, it appears to resemble very closely that group of dinosaurs that we now call alligator like or alligator mimics. Could this be another example of a creature out of time? Out of Darwin time, that is.

The Full Armor of God? Or Darwin?

According to Wikipedia, Ankylosaurs, a group of armored dinosaurs were among the last group of dinosaurs standing going extinct 65 million years ago, wiped out by the “KT extinction”. These armored dinosaurs are said by Darwinists to have evolved their armored defense over millions of years, beginning millions of years ago.

Genesis on the other hand claims that these creatures were created as is with their armor in place—not that long ago. A related group; in fact it may be the same group differentiated by sex or the Nodosaurs which are basically the ankylosaurs without the club tails.

It would serve here to simply look at a number of Nodosaurs.

The Museo De Jade is located in San Jose, Costa Rica and is located on the 11th floor of the Institute for National Security (INS). The building is easy to locate but the museum entrance is off to the left side as you approach the main entrance. The exhibit is the largest American jade collection in the world (over 6,000 works of pre-Columbian art and jewelry). All of their exhibits are not jade and their collection comes from all over the Americas, including ancient North America.

As you can see this ancient South American depiction looks quite a bit like a nodosaurine armored dinosaur. Its very difficult to claim that it represents anything else-though I’m sure that Darwinists will so claim. Don’t worry about the lack of clubbed tail; plenty of armored dinosaurs did not have one.

There were a number of closely related types of nodosaurs so we won’t try to identify the exact type.

What do you think? Who is responsible for the armor on these creatures and did they become extinct 65 million years ago?

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The Machine of DNA in Real Time
The Ipad 2 Is Nice but Will Any Invention of Man Ever Match God’s Tiny Wonderful Machines in the Cell?

Science, Uncategorized, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Mar 03 2011

Psalm 139:14
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
Tip of the cap to CreationEvolutionHeadlines

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Ancient Mound Builder Controversy: Did They Interact with and Memorialize Allosaurus, T-Rex or Carnotaurus? Plus, Champ or Ogopogo?

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Sophistication of Ancestors, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Feb 28 2011

by Chris Parker

Drawing: Mound Builder Artifact from the book: “Records of Ancient Races in the Mississippi Valley, 1887”

It’s amazing how little we as a supposedly educated culture actually know about the past. Even if we’ve studied the past, much of what is being taught or that is commonly believed is untrue. For instance, Columbus did not “discover” America. He was preceded here certainly by its inhabitants of the time, but also by the Norse, the Chinese, Africans, the Irish and the Vikings to name a few. Nero did not fiddle while Rome burned, Eve did not eat an apple, Egyptians were Africans. Dinosaurs and man Did interact

When in comes to the American continent, Native Americans supposedly came here from Asia 20,000 years ago across the Bering Straight land Bridge. However, a mysterious people, now called the Mound Builders whose works the Native Americans didn’t know were apparently here before them and their artifacts show that they interacted with the mastodon, dinosaurs and aquatic reptiles. Dinosaurs and aquatic reptiles supposedly went extinct more than 65 million years ago.

No one knows for sure who the Mound Builders were and where they came from but one thing is certain; no one believes that they lived with the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. The question is; did some dinosaurs and Mound builders live together here on this continent in “recent” times?

I present here some theories about the actual aimals being depicted here. Of course I could be wrong but I feel that if science believes that the ancient mound depicted on the left represents a Swan rather than a quadruped such as a sauropod that I’m on safe ground.

“The group of cultures collectively called Mound Builders were prehistoric inhabitants of North America who constructed various styles of earthen mounds for burial, residential and ceremonial purposes. These included the Pre-Columbian cultures of the Archaic period; Woodland period (Adena and Hopewell cultures); and Mississippian period; dating from roughly 3000 BCE to the 16th century CE, and living in regions of the Great Lakes, the Ohio River valley, and the Mississippi River valley and its tributaries.

As a comparison, beginning with the construction of Watson Brake about 3500 BC in present-day Louisiana, indigenous peoples started building earthwork mounds in North America nearly 1000 years before the pyramids were constructed in Egypt. Since the 19th century, the prevailing scholarly consensus has been that the mounds were constructed by Indigenous peoples of the Americas, early cultures distinctly separate from the historical Native American tribes extant at the time of European colonization of North America. The historical Native Americans were generally not knowledgeable about the civilizations that produced the mounds. Research and study of these cultures and peoples has been based on archaeology and anthropology.” Wikipedia

Mound Builder Theropod Dinosaur


This artifact (also pictured at the top of the page) is a drawing from the book; Records of Ancient Races in the Mississippi Valley: Written By William McAdams published in 1887 Page 14.

The author and the experts refer to the depiction as a “dragon” and it might seem presumptuous of me to disagree (particularly since we have only the head of the creature) but I see something else entirely. The Mound Builder creatures surrounding this piece are for the most part recognizable and are sculpted in a realistic style. There is no reason to suppose that this is a mythological creature other than because one has an A Priori scientific belief that these creatures did not exist within the lifetime of man.

Here is the author’s discussion of the piece in question and the other pieces found with it in the mound.

Graphic:Left, T-rex, Right Carnotaurus

“In our collection of pottery from the ancient mounds we have several pieces ornamented with dragon-like devices. We give an illustration of two of these; burial vases, with a most pronounced dragon-head standing up from the rim of the vessel. There is the great mouth with the teeth revealed, and protruding tongue, with fierce eyes, and the general aspect, not only of the Piasa, but of those mythological representations of the dragon so frequently found in Asia. We present a sketch of another.

Graphic:Left, Allosaurus, Right Carnotaurus


It is all the more interesting since we found with it a magnificent collection of pottery, of more than a hundred pieces, at the base of the great Cahokia mound, (pictured above, right) in the American Bottom, in Madison County, Ills.

This is the largest artificial mound in the United States, and perhaps in the world, being one-hundred feet in height, and covering with its base sixteen acres of ground. It is the centre of a group of seventy-two others, which surround it, and of which a description will be given farther on in this work. They are situated on a level plain, miles from any natural elevation. For a complete description and survey of them, see “The Antiquities of Cahokia, or Monk’s Mound’

Upon taking these curious old burial vases from the place where they had rested for ages, it was like exhuming a museum of natural history in ceramics ; for these were the shapes of animals, birds, reptiles, fishes, and aflmost all animated nature, together with the shapes of From Cahoki Mound. ithe human form. Among them were several vases adorned with the dragon heads.”

This is a realistically sculpted creature, posed withn a frog, it is certainly not a lizard and its teeth and head indicate that it is a carnivorous reptile. Quite frequently, such a creature is laabeled a dragon, and if not then a crocodile or alligator. This creature is clearly not one of those. It appears to be a lifelike depiction of a theropod dinosaur; a species similar to the allosaurus, t-rex or Carnotaurus. Are those horns on the top of its head or are those prominent eye ridges as depicted in a number of t-rex renditions. Keep this in mind; the piece you see here may have been done by an eyewitness.

We have compared here the Mound Builder creature with several examples of meat eating theropod dinosaurs. In our minds, the Carnotaurus, to date found in South America, most closely matches the Mound Builder artrifact.

Carnotaurus (pronounced /?k?rn??t?r?s/; meaning “meat-eating bull”, referring to its distinct bull-like horns (Latin carne = flesh + Greek tauros = bull) was a large predatory dinosaur, with horns vaguely resembling a bull’s. Only one species, Carnotaurus sastrei has been described so far. Carnotaurus lived in Patagonia, Argentina (La Colonia Formation) during the Campanian to the Maastrichtian stage of the Late Cretaceous, and was discovered by JosĂ© Bonaparte, who has uncovered many other South American dinosaurs. Wikipedia

Allosaurus and T-rex are North American dinosaurs according to science.

Mound Builder Aquatic Reptile: Champ or Ogopogo

The Tusayan people are named after a ruin located in the Grand canyon National park in Arizona. These ancestral Puebloan people lived in the area until 1,000 years ago archaeologists believe. In American Anthropologist, Volume 5, January 1892, in an article entitled “ A Few Tusayan Pictographs” is a very interesting pictograph showing four long necked creatures.


Aquatic reptiles became extinct more than 65 million years ago as did the long necked sauropods according to science. The pictographs were thought to be a little as a thousand years old, possibly several thousand but certainly not millions of years old. Could science be wrong or are the more benign “nothing to see here, move it along” explanations of the archeologists satisfactory?

Here we compare the Mound Builder pictographs with; an ancient Roman “sea monster” and with several other classic sea or lake monsters.

Here’s what the author wrote about the pictograph in question:

“It will be noticed in examining the cut of these four pictographs of the great serpent that one is about horizontal and the other three erect. It will also be noticed that the horizontal specimen has a zigzag outline, as if in motion, which the others do not have. They are undoubtedly, however, figures of the same mythological personage”.

Ogopogo and Champ


“Ogopogo or Naitaka (Salish: n’ha-a-itk, “lake demon”) is the name given to a cryptid lake monster reported to live in Okanagan Lake, in British Columbia, Canada. Ogopogo has been allegedly seen by First Nations people since the 19th century. The most common description of Ogopogo is a forty- to fifty-foot-long (12 to 15 m) sea serpent. It has supposedly been photographed and even been caught on tape.” …Wikipedia


“Champ, or Champy is the name given to a reputed lake monster living in Lake Champlain, a natural freshwater lake in North America, partially situated across the U.S.-Canada border in the Canadian province of Quebec and partially situated across the Vermont-New York border. While there is no scientific evidence for the cryptid’s existence, there have been over 300 reported sightings. The legend of the monster is considered a draw for tourism in the Burlington, Vermont area.”… Wikipedia

The creature appears to be drawn with a beard which is typical of some “sea monsters” and drawn with a type of headcrest or ears.

I’m not suggesting that this creature is either Ogopogo or Champ but that it could represent a tyoe of sea or lake monster that has been seen and described by even the Romans and Greeks and by ancient and recent North and South Americans.

It appears that neither theropod dinosaurs or aquatic reptiles died out millons of years ago and were instead seen and memorialized by ancient peoples.

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