Archive for the ‘s8int.com’ Category

Riddle Me This My Good Brother
Which Folly is More Dumber (sic) Than the Other?
To Bow Down to That of Which You are the Carver
Or to Think a Dead Rodent Your Mother?

Amusing?, Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Science, Uncategorized | Posted by Chris Parker
Aug 27 2011


“….For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles”. Romans 1

“This Descended From A Rodent Declaration Causes a Chuckle
And What of Your Prior Claims of Being A Monkey’s Uncle?”…….s8int.com

Dinosaur-Era Mammal Possibly “Mother” of All Humanity
August 25, 2011 ThirdAge.com

A tiny, dinosaur-era mammal may have been the mother of all humanity — at least in a sense, National Geographic News reports.

According to a new study, the newly discovered 160-million-year-old fossil species, named the “Jurassic mother from China” [Juramaia sinensis], is the earliest known ancestor of placental mammals — that is, animals, such as humans, that give birth to relatively mature, live young.

Although it’s unclear if the creature is a direct ancestor of modern placentals, it’s “either a great grand-aunt or a great grandmother,” the study’s authors told National Geographic.

According to the study, the newfound eutherian scurried about temperate Jurassic forests, dined on insects under the cover of darkness, and weighed about half an ounce (15 grams), making it lighter than a chipmunk.

“The great evolutionary lineage that includes us had a very humble beginning, in terms of body mass,” Zhe-Xi Luo, a paleontologist at the Carnegie Museum of Natural History in Pittsburgh, who led the team that discovered the fossil, told National Geographic

The discovery brings the fossil record in line with DNA evidence that indicates that the split between ancestral marsupials and placentals occurred around 160 million years ago, Luo added.

“What is clear is that, besides the fact that marsupials and placentals start to differentiate, we also have the other mammals that diversified as well,” he continued. “But we don’t know what would be the specific environmental trigger for that.”

Placentals, which includes creatures ranging from mice to whales, are all that remain of the eutherian mammals.

The findings of the study will be published Thursday in the journal Nature.


“They Refuse to Worship God the Genuine Article
But Bow the Knee to a Non-Existing Particle?”…s8int.com

All idols are not carved from a block of wood.

It wasn’t more than two weeks ago that headlines around the world rang out with the news that CERN had finally found/discovered the elusive “God Particle” which was responsible for giving the matter in the universe mass. Now here we are a short time (and billions of dollars since the start of the program) later with the less than banner, worldwide headlines that the “God particle” might not exist after all. When they thought it might exist they called it the “God particle”; when they realized that it probably doesn’t exist they call it Higgs-Boson. Hedging their bets, scientists claim that the world of physics will be almost as excited if they learn that the particle doesn’t exist as they would have been to have discovered it. ….s8int.com

God Particle May not Exist After All

August 24, 2011

Photo: Statue of the Hindu god, Shiva Outside Cern Headquarters in Geneva


A particle believed to have played a key role in the creation of the universe might not exist after all, a media report said Tuesday quoting experts.

Scientists said last month that they were close to cornering the elusive Higgs boson or ‘God particle’ – a tiny but vital element in the construction of life as we know it.

But hope is now fading after the disappearance of signals scientists had hoped would lead them to it, the Daily Mail reported.

The CERN research centre, whose giant Large Hadron Collider (LHC) has been carrying out the work under the mountains on the French-Swiss border, announced its scepticism at a conference in Mumbai.

Guido Tonelli, from one of the two LHC detectors chasing the Higgs, said: “Whatever the final verdict on Higgs, we are now living in very exciting times for all involved in the quest for new physics.”

CERN said new results, which updated findings that caused excitement at another scientific gathering in Grenoble last month, “show that the elusive Higgs particle, if it exists, is running out of places to hide”, the Mail reported.

The centre’s research director Sergio Bertolucci told the conference at Mumbai’s Tata Institute of Fundamental Research that if the Higgs did not exist “its absence will point the way to new physics”.

Under what is known as the Standard Model of physics, the boson – named after British physicist Peter Higgs – is posited as having been the agent that gave mass and energy to matter just after the Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago.

As a result, flying debris from that primeval explosion could come together as stars, planets and galaxies.

In the subterranean LHC, which began operating in March 2010, CERN engineers and physicists have created billions of miniature versions of the Big Bang by smashing particles together at just a fraction under the speed of light.

The results of those collisions are monitored by hundreds of physicists, not just at CERN but in linked laboratories around the world which sift through the vast volumes of information generated by the LHC, the Mail said.

For some scientists, the Higgs remains the simplest explanation of how matter got mass. It remains unclear what could replace it as an explanation.

In God-Less We Don’t Trust: Atheists Least Trusted Group In America?

Church of Darwin, Religious, s8int.com, Science, Uncategorized | Posted by Chris Parker
Aug 08 2011


More recent polls continue to show that Atheists are the most distrusted although Muslims and Scientologists have made up some ground.

University of Minnesota Study on American Attitudes Towards Atheists & Atheism
Research Finds that Atheists are Most Despised, Most Distrusted Minority

By Austin Cline, About.com Guide

Every single study that has ever looked at the issue has revealed massive amounts of bigotry and prejudice against atheists in America. The most recent data shows that atheists are more distrusted and despised than any other minority and that an atheist is the least likely person that Americans would vote for in a presidential election. It’s not just that atheists are hated, though, but also that atheists seem to represent everything about modernity which Americans dislike or fear.

The most recent study was conducted by the University of Minnesota, which found that atheists ranked lower than “Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in ‘sharing their vision of American society.’ Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.” The results from two of the most important questions were:

This group does not at all agree with my vision of American society…

Atheist: 39.6%
Muslims: 26.3%
Homosexuals: 22.6%
Hispanics: 20%
Conservative Christians: 13.5%
Recent Immigrants: 12.5%
Jews: 7.6%

I would disapprove if my child wanted to marry a member of this group….

Atheist: 47.6%
Muslim: 33.5%
African-American 27.2%
Asian-Americans: 18.5%
Hispanics: 18.5%
Jews: 11.8%
Conservative Christians: 6.9%
Whites: 2.3%

Lead researcher Penny Edgell said that she was surprised by this: “We thought that in the wake of 9/11, people would target Muslims. Frankly, we expected atheists to be a throwaway group.” Nevertheless, the numbers are so extreme that she was led to conclude that they are “a glaring exception to the rule of increasing tolerance over the last 30 years.” It’s not that bigotry and discrimination against Muslims is appropriate, but at least it’s not hard to understand where such attitudes would come from.

Every group except atheists is being shown much greater tolerance and acceptance than 30 years ago. “Our analysis shows that attitudes about atheists have not followed the same historical pattern as that for previously marginalized religious groups. It is possible that the increasing tolerance for religious diversity may have heightened awareness of religion itself as the basis for solidarity in American life and sharpened the boundary between believers and nonbelievers in our collective imagination.”

Some respondents associated atheism with illegal behavior, like drug use and prostitution: “that is, with immoral people who threaten respectable community from the lower end of the social hierarchy.” Others saw atheists as “rampant materialists and cultural elitists” who “threaten common values from above — the ostentatiously wealthy who make a lifestyle out of consumption or the cultural elites who think they know better than everyone else.”

Given the relatively low number of atheists in America, and the even lower number who are public about their atheism, Americans can’t have come to their beliefs about atheists through personal experience and hard evidence about what atheists are really like. Furthermore, dislike of atheists doesn’t correlate very highly with dislike of gays, immigrants, or Muslims. This means that dislike of atheists isn’t simply part of a larger dislike of people who are “different.”

Why are atheists being singled out for special hatred and distrust? “What matters for public acceptance of atheists – and figures strongly into private acceptance as well – are beliefs about the appropriate relationship between church and state and about religion’s role in underpinning society’s moral order, as measured by our item on whether society’s standards of right and wrong should be based on God’s laws.” It’s curious that atheists would be singled out for special hatred on the basis of church/state separation which religious theists, including Christians, are usually on the forefront of fighting to preserve separation. It’s rare to find a case filed by or supported by atheists which is not also supported by theists and Christians. In fact, I can’t think of any off hand.

Although people may say that they consider atheists inferior because atheists don’t believe that civil law should be defined according to some group’s conception of what their god wants, I don’t think that’s the whole story. There are too many religious theists who also want civil law to be secular rather than religious. Instead, I think that a much better case can be made for the idea that atheists are being scapegoated the same way that Catholics and Jews once were: they are treated as social outsiders who create “moral and social disorder.”

Atheists can’t both be lower-class drug users or prostitutes and upper-class elitists and materialists. Instead, atheists are being saddled with the “sins” of American society generally. They are “a symbolic figure” that represent religious theists’ “fears about … trends in American life.” Some of those fears involve “lower class” crimes like drug use; other fears involve “upper class” crimes like greed and elitism. Atheists are thus a “symbolic representation of one who rejects the basis for moral solidarity and cultural membership in American society altogether.”

That’s obviously not going to change, because as long as atheists remain atheists, then won’t be theists and they won’t be Christians. This means that they won’t agree that any gods, much less the Christian god, can serve as the basis for moral solidarity or cultural membership in American society. Of course, neither can adherents of many other religions who either don’t believe in gods or who don’t believe in the Christian god. As America becomes more religiously pluralist, America is going to have to change and find something else to serve as the basis for moral solidarity and cultural membership. Atheists should work to ensure that this is as secular as possible.

Why is the Universe So Fined Tuned for Life? God Some Believe. However, Super Smart Scientists Conclude that There are an Infinite Number of Invisible, Undetectable Universes Occupying the Same Space and that The Earth is Carried on the Back of a Giant Tortoise

Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Science, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Aug 02 2011

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Rom 1:18-20

Existence: Why is the Universe Just Right for us?
by Marcus Chown NewScientist, July 29, 2011

IT HAS been called the Goldilocks paradox. If the strong nuclear force which glues atomic nuclei together were only a few per cent stronger than it is, stars like the sun would exhaust their hydrogen fuel in less than a second. Our sun would have exploded long ago and there would be no life on Earth. If the weak nuclear force were a few per cent weaker, the heavy elements that make up most of our world wouldn’t be here, and neither would you.

If gravity were a little weaker than it is, it would never have been able to crush the core of the sun sufficiently to ignite the nuclear reactions that create sunlight; a little stronger and, again, the sun would have burned all of its fuel billions of years ago. Once again, we could never have arisen.

Such instances of the fine-tuning of the laws of physics seem to abound. Many of the essential parameters of nature – the strengths of fundamental forces and the masses of fundamental particles – seem fixed at values that are “just right” for life to emerge. A whisker either way and we would not be here. It is as if the universe was made for us.

What are we to make of this? One possibility is that the universe was fine-tuned by a supreme being – God. Although many people like this explanation, scientists see no evidence that a supernatural entity is orchestrating the cosmos. (What! See Prior Paragraphs in this article, genuises!…s8int.com)

The known laws of physics can explain the existence of the universe that we observe. To paraphrase astronomer Pierre-Simon Laplace when asked by Napoleon why his book Mécanique Céleste did not mention the creator: we have no need of that hypothesis.

Another possibility is that it simply couldn’t be any other way. We find ourselves in a universe ruled by laws compatible with life because, well, how could we not?

This could seem to imply that our existence is an incredible slice of luck – of all the universes that could have existed, we got one capable of supporting intelligent life. But most physicists don’t see it that way.

The most likely explanation for fine-tuning is possibly even more mind-expanding: that our universe is merely one of a vast ensemble of universes, each with different laws of physics. We find ourselves in one with laws suitable for life because, again, how could it be any other way?

The multiverse idea is not without theoretical backing. String theory, our best attempt yet at a theory of everything, predicts at least 10500 universes, each with different laws of physics. To put that number into perspective, there are an estimated 1025 grains of sand in the Sahara desert.

Fine-tuned fallacy

Another possibility is that there is nothing to explain. Some argue that the whole idea of fine-tuning is wrong. One vocal critic is Victor Stenger of the University of Colorado in Boulder, author of The Fallacy of Fine-tuning. His exhibit A concerns one of the pre-eminent examples of fine-tuning, the unlikeliness of the existence of anything other than hydrogen, helium and lithium.

All the heavy elements in your body, including carbon, nitrogen, oxygen and iron, were forged inside distant stars. In 1952, cosmologist Fred Hoyle argued that the existence of these elements depends on a huge cosmic coincidence. One of the key steps to their formation is the “triple alpha” process in which three helium nuclei fuse together to form a carbon-12 nucleus. For this reaction to occur, Hoyle proposed that the energy of the carbon-12 nucleus must be precisely equal to the combined energy of three helium nuclei at the typical temperature inside a red giant star. And so it is.

However, Stenger points out that in 1989 a team at the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa showed that, actually, the carbon-12 energy level could have been significantly different and still resulted in the heavy elements required for life.

There are other problems with the fine-tuning argument. One is the fact that examples of fine-tuning are found by taking a single parameter – a force of nature, say, or a subatomic particle mass – and varying it while keeping everything else constant. This seems very unrealistic. The theory of everything, which alas we do not yet possess, is likely to show intimate connections between physical parameters. The effect of varying one may very well be compensated for by variations in another.

Then there is the fact that we only have one example of life to go on, so how can we be so sure that different laws could not give rise to some other living system capable of pondering its own existence?

Article Remainder; Page 2

“Ancestor of all Birds Knocked from its Perch”; Paleontologists Eat Crow? Horsefeathers Fly

Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Science, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Aug 02 2011

Genesis 2:19
Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky.

The idea of feathered dinosaurs and the theropod origin of birds is being actively promulgated by a cadre of zealous scientists acting in concert with certain editors at Nature and National Geographic who themselves have become outspoken and highly biased proselytizers of the faith. Truth and careful scientific weighing of evidence have been among the first casualties in their program, which is now fast becoming one of the grander scientific hoaxes of our age—the paleontological equivalent of cold fusion. If Sloan’s article is not the crescendo of this fantasia, it is difficult to imagine to what heights it can next be taken”. .. Storrs L. Olson, Smithsonian, November 1999 Article

“The theory that dinosaurs gave rise to birds has been dealt a blow by palaeontologists who have examined critical evidence from a Chinese fossil. The discoverers of the turkey-sized dinosaur Sinosauropteryx say it would have had primitive feathers, supporting the bird-from-dinosaurs theory. But the latest research says these “proto feathers” are really frilly structures on the creature’s back.” Dinosaur “Feathers” Are No Such Thing-ABC NewsOnline, May 2007

Ancestor of all Birds Knocked from its Perch

By Laurent Banguet Yahoo News Jul 27, 2011

….The winged Archaeopteryx, long venerated as the forebear of birds, has been knocked off its hallowed perch on the tree of evolution, according to a study released Wednesday.

A new dinosaur species unearthed in northern China reveals that the iconic 150 million year old “original bird” is probably just another dino with feathers, of which there are many, the researchers said.

It is hard to imagine a harder fall from evolutionary grace.

Since its discovery 150 years ago in Bavaria, most scientists placed Archaeopteryx squarely at the root of the broad group of proto-birds, known as Avialae, from which our modern feathered friends have emerged.

The emblematic creature was also held up as a case study — THE case study during the late 19th century — of evolutionary transition, to wit, from dinosaur to bird.

Over the years, a few scientists have gingerly expressed doubts, pointing to supposedly defining bird-like characteristics — feathers, the wishbone, three-fingered hands — that were also showing up in non-avian dinosaurs.

But without hard proof that Archaeopteryx was not really where it belonged on the so-called phylogenetic tree, the presumed progenitor continued to reign over its feathered kingdom.

Enter Xing Xu, a professor at Linyi University in China’s Shandong Province and discoverer extraordinaire of dinosaur fossils.

In the new study, published in Nature, Xu and colleagues describe the attributes of a previously unknown dinosaur the fossil of which was found in Liaoning Province, in China’s northeast.

About the size of a chicken and probably weighing less than a kilo (about two pounds), Xiaotingia shared a host of key characteristics with Archaeopteryx but seemed, at the same time, to fall into another group of non-avian dinos called Deinonychosauria.

A standard computer analysis confirmed as much, but at the same time produced a stunning result: Archaeopteryx had been reclassified into the same group.

“In other words, Archaeopteryx was no longer a bird,” Lawrence Witmer, a professor at Ohio university’s Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine, said in a commentary, also in Nature.

Xiaotingia, it turns out, was the smoking gun that sceptical scientists had been looking for.

Surprised by their findings, Xu and his team ran the analysis again, but this time without the newly discovered species. Archaeopteryx was restored — in error, they now knew — to its previous perch.

Xu has called for further confirmation, but suggests that his discovery will overturn long-held assumptions about the “avian ancestral condition.”

“Perhaps the time has come to finally accept that Archaeopteryx was just another small, feathered, bird-like theropod fluttering around in the Jurassic,” Witmer said.

One reason it has been so hard for biologists to embrace this idea may have more to do with history than science.

The first Archaeopteryx specimen was discovered, with uncanny timing, less than two years after the publication of Charles Darwin’s game-changing Origin of the Species.

With an evenly matched blend of avian and reptilian features, it became — in textbooks and public debate — “Exhibit A” in explaining the transformative power of natural selection and evolution.

“The familiar fossils have guided almost all scientific thought about the beginnings of birds,” Witman said, including himself among those led astray.

It’s reclassification, he added, is likely to “rock the palaeontological community for years to come.”

Who are the new candidates for king of the roost?

No single species is likely to ever gain the stature that Archaeopteryx once had, said Xu.

But among the new pretenders, three newly discovered creatures stand out: Epidexipteryx, Jeholornis, and Sapeornis.

..

On Propositioning Atheists, Giant Penguins in the Garden of Eden and How Science Works #173

Church of Darwin, Giants in Those Days, Religious, s8int.com, Science, Uncategorized, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jul 14 2011


“God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodly behavior and the injustice of human beings who silence the truth with injustice. This is because what is known about God should be plain to them because God made it plain to them. Ever since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities—God’s eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through the things God has made. So humans are without excuse. Although they knew God, they didn’t honor God as God or thank him. Instead, their reasoning became pointless, and their foolish hearts were darkened. While they were claiming to be wise, they made fools of themselves. .” Romans 1

Selfish Genes vs “Skepchick’s” Jeans

It turns out that sometimes Atheists like to gather together in halls and hotels for conferences where they seek to encourage one another in the faith and discuss ways to proselytize. They discuss the sacred writings of their high profs; book, chapter and verse. They listen to speeches (sermons?) from those skilled in dealing with their specific articles of faith and of course they socialize and talk about MythBusters.


Rebecca Watson is a young Atheist who leads a team of “female activists” at Skepchick.org and who gets to travel all over the world delivering talks on science, Atheism, feminism etc. She appears on a number of Atheistic/Skeptical programs and has an internet presence. Considering that she is one of the few female stars in the Atheistic realm she is well known and is apparently sought after as a speaker.

Not long ago she mentioned on a podcast following a conference where she was a panelist with Richard Dawkins a story about being “hit on” in an elevator by a conference attendee. Her comment/request has engendered a fairly nasty response from the Atheist/Skeptic community.

“So I walk to the elevator, and a man got on the elevator with me and said, ‘Don’t take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting, and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee?’

Um, just a word to wise here, guys, uh, don’t do that. You know, I don’t really know how else to explain how this makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I’ll just sort of lay it out that I was a single woman, you know, in a foreign country, at 4:00 am, in a hotel elevator, with you, just you, and–don’t invite me back to your hotel room right after I finish talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner
”

Ms. Watson went on to mention that a number of women she knew did not like to attend these types of conferences because they were “hit on” so frequently and she avowed that this served to limit the number of women in the movement. She went on in a blog about the incident above;

“So here we are today. I am a feminist, because skeptics and atheists made me one. Every time I mention, however delicately, a possible issue of misogyny or objectification in our community, the response I get shows me that the problem is much worse than I thought, and so I grow angrier. I knew that eventually I would reach a sort of feminist singularity where I would explode and in my place would rise some kind of Captain Planet-type superhero but for feminists. I believe that day has nearly arrived.”

Richard Dawkins, the world’s most famous non-believer responded to her advice and concern regarding the elevator incident in a sarcastic message that began;

“Stop whining, will you”? From there it went down hill.

Now, much of the Atheist community is at war (of words). Ms. Watson has received more than 1,300 comments on her site alone and many other acrimonious conversations are taking place elsewhere on the web.

Here’s the thing; why is Ms. Watson surprised by any of this?

As a leader in the Atheistic religion hadn’t she studied its history? Didn’t she know that a powerful force behind the rejection of Christianity and religion in general was “sexual freedom”? It was the burden of morality and the requirement to adhere to societal standards (which drew their inspiration from the Bible and Christianity) that provided a primary motivation for unbelief.

This is something that Christians have been pointing out for decades and that Atheists have tried to argue against; that a powerful motivation for Atheistic beliefs both in the formation of modern Atheism and in many Atheists today is freedom from exogenous moral values.

Aldous Huxley, a famous and influential Atheist of the 1960’s and grandson of ground floor Atheist/philosopher Thomas Huxley explains:

“I had motives for not wanting the world to have meaning; consequently assumed it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption . . The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics; he is also concerned to prove there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do . .

For myself, as no doubt for most of my contemporaries, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation. The liberation we desired was simultaneously liberation from a certain political and economic system and liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom.”—*Aldous Huxley, “Confessions of a Professed Atheist,” Report: Perspective on the News, Vol. 3, June, 1966, p. 19

We could give additional examples but Ms. Watson probably now has hundreds if not thousands of additional, personal examples to draw from. How dare someone, and particularly a woman and particularly one from their own community suggest that there be any restriction on their sexual freedoms? Is she trying to describe a morality that Atheists and particularly male Atheists should have to adhere to, they wonder?

What’s the point in rejecting God if at the end one has to lead a moral life anyway? What’s the point in imagining an entire scheme that makes you an accidental life form in an accidental universe with no one as your boss only to have someone acting as your boss?

No wonder that Dawkins, the titular head of the Darwin party had to step in to try to set things right. As an Atheist, he probably has a hard time even figuring out why she would selfishly say no, anyway. What’s the big whoop he must wonder? Just selfish genes trying to replicate, after all. Dawkins made the notion of selfish genes famous in his 1976 book wherein every action and reaction of man can be seen as selfish genes seeking to propagate themselves. (No doubt many would object to this definition)

The signers of the Declaration of Independence had it right (borrowing from the French) when they said that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, a proposition that would hold true with respect to government for both Christians and Atheists. However, the cornerstone statement in the Declaration is “we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights” supersedes even the consent of the government and places those rights and moral responsibilities in the hands of a greater power, God. Moral systems must be obtained from a higher power than man himself since if all men are equal then they are each equally capable of deciding on their own what is wrong and what is right in their own eyes.

Atheists may accept the idea of government and laws based on the consent of the governed but certainly reject the notion that we are endowed with anything from a Creator. We’re surprised that Ms. Watson, as a high priestess of the faith didn’t know that.
As far as Atheists are concerned, heaven is here on earth and that means they don’t need women (or God) getting in the way of their liberation from restrictions, particularly sexual ones.

On Giant Penguins and Conditions That Must Have Existed in the Garden of Eden and the Early Years of this Planet

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that
Genesis 6:4

In September 2010, UPI.com had a report about a giant penguin fossil discovered in Peru:

“The fossil of a giant red penguin, nearly twice as tall as the largest living species, has been discovered in Peru, U.S. paleontologists say. Standing 5 feet tall, nearly twice the height of an Emperor penguin, the fossil, discovered in Peru’s Reserva Nacional de Paracas and nicknamed Pedro, is 36 million years old, the BBC reported.” UPI, Sept. 30, 2011

For those gentle readers who like to play “stump the creationist”, take note. All penguins do not live in the the Arctic or under Arctic conditions. There are penguins living today in a warm South Africa (rather that a cold South Pole) for instance and that’s how Noah found penguins in “Palestine” for the ark.


Science has given these giant penguins its own species name but the fact of the matter is; they are simply penguins. If you were to see one today you would recognize it not as some evolutionary predecessor to the penguin, but as a penguin—albeit a very large one. These giant creatures of the earth’s past are an unexamined and an unexplained problem for the theory of evolution and the life of this planet.

When Genesis reports that there were giants in those days, I think many Christians assume that the text suggests that some of the people in those days were giants and that some survived after the flood. Fossil evidence suggests an alternative; perhaps every creature was created as a relative giant in those days and after the flood, some vestiges of the time of the giant creatures remained.

Fossil evidence suggests that besides giant reptiles, there were giant turtles, penguins, clams, humans, dogs, sheep, fish, deer, rodents, rhinos, insects, birds etc. in the past life of this planet. These giant creatures are as recognizable as are there smaller relatives living today. Evolution does not explain why there was a period in the earth’s history when all creatures were gigantic forms of the same creatures living today.

Kansas giant print 44 inches long-from Valley of the Giants by C.N. Dougherty.

Mary Leakey was one of the discoverers of chimpanzee bone fragments which became known as Lucy which was put forward by paleontologists as a human ancestor back in the early 1970s. You remember that. You don’t remember that her husband Louis Leakey found an “inexhaustible supply of human bones” along with “traces of dinosaurs” in Kenya at Nakeru back in the 1920s because that’s how “science” works. Source: The Montreal Gazette – Sep 24, 1927

Louis Leaky made an even more amazing discovery in keeping with our giant penguins and Garden of Eden theme. As reported in the New York Times of May 11, 1958 Leakey discovered the complete skeletons of gigantic animals along with evidence of giant humans at Olduvai Gorge in East Africa. The New York Times article was entitled; “Gigantic Fossils of Animals Found, East African Expert Cites Sheep as Big as Horses, Hogs with Elephant-Like Tusks”.

Here are excerpts from the article:

“London May 10—The remains of gigantic animals, including sheep as big as present-day carthorses and hogs with tusks like elephants have been dug out of an ancient gorge at Olduvia, in East Africa.

Two giant human teeth have also been found
.”

“
Specimens have been brought to London for comparative studies by the man who found them. He is Dr. Louis S.B. Leakey, director of the Coryndon Museum at Nairobi, Kenya.”

“
.But the most remarkable character of the Chellean Age was he says, the gigantic size of the animals existing at that time. Dr. Leakey has found the complete skeleton of a Pleistocene sheep with a horn-span of fourteen feet. It was about as big as a big cart-horse, he says. He has also unearthed the bones of wild hogs the size of a rhinoceros with elephant sized tusks.

He has found a giant giraffe, baboons as big as modern gorillas, massive zebras and antelopes. But his most important find from the point of view of the evolution of man is two giant teeth. They are either from a Chellean child or they are from another species of man hunted and eaten by cannibalistic Chelleans. (They appeared to be primary or “baby” teeth).

They are undoubtedly human and larger than any previously discovered. One molar is bigger than that of the mature molars of Peking Man (up to 9 feet tall).” NYT

Leakey attributed the gigantic size of the animals of this time with “trace elements” washed down into the gorge and then consumed by the animals of the gorge.


Despite their protestations to the contrary, Darwinists have no answer for these gigantic versions of currently existing animals. A beaver the size of a modern black bear; an armadillo the size of a Volkswagen, giant oysters in the mountains of Peru 12 feet wide, a type of deer 7 feet tall at the shoulder 8 foot roly poly’s, dragon flies with two foot wingspans, a super croc the size of a boxcar, rodents the size of a bull are outside of current Darwinian understanding to say nothing of 5 foot penguins.

Many of these creatures simply couldn’t exist or function under current gravitational conditions. Sauropods likely could not have lifted their heads. Argentavis magnificens, an eagle like raptor and the largest bird ever discovered could not have flown under current gravity conditions. Very ancient depictions of mastodons show them galloping like a horse. Currently living elephants are too big to run or gallop.


The question is when did these creatures live in the history of this planet? From an evolution perspective; what evolutionary advantage would giant versions of today’s animals have over there smaller cousins? Why is the only difference between the gigantic animals of yesterday and today’s smaller versions their size? Where are the other adaptations that must have taken place over allegedly millions of years? Why would they evolve to large size and then to small?

A 1987 article in Time Magazine might provide a clue; it was entitled Putting On Ancient Airs”, and informed that “two scientists stunned colleagues by reporting that 80 million years ago, (sic) the earth’s atmosphere contained about 50% more oxygen than it does now.”


Geochemists Gary Landis of the U.S. Geological Survey and Robert Berner of Yale were able to measure ancient air trapped in amber. Naturally we don’t subscribe to the age given as 80,000,000 years ago, but it does raise the possibility that at one time on this planet there was much more oxygen to breathe in the atmosphere than there is now. The comparison is 21% oxygen today vs. up to 35% oxygen in the past.

Why did gigantic versions of man and creature live in the earth’s past? Genesis provides the best answer; there were giants in those days


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Scientists Discover Giant Penguin Fossil (Video)
Giant wombat fossil found (Science Alert)
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Arnold Schwarzenbunny: Giant Rabbit Fossil Found

Spanish island yields giant rabbit fossil – UPI.com

Giant snake fossil hints at a hotter future – environment -
Giant spider fossil found in Mongolia – The Mumpsimus Blog site
Giant Beaver Fossils with Facts and Pictures.
Scientists Discover “Giant Fossil Frog from Hell” –
Giant Condor Fossil | Flickr –
Discovery of a giant fossil bird with teeth – PetHobbyist.com Site …
Cryptomundo » Giant Fossil Rodent Discovered
Giant Stork Fossil was found in Flores, Indonesia. – Cultural …

Giant prehistoric fish species found in forgotten fossils (Wired UK)
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Amblyrhiza Inundata: Giant Fossil Rat- Anguilla Local News
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Giant Tree Fossils

How Science Works #173

First of all, we have no idea whether we’ve correctly numbered these “How Science Works” articles. That’s how we work.

Recently, we noted that archaeologists had virtually been forced to acknowledge that an incised bone discovered at Vero Beach Florida was an actual ancient artifact that proved that elephants or mastodons had lived in North America in the ancient past.

They then declared it to be the first such representation in North America. We can’t figure out if that is a bold faced lie or simply a demonstration of real ignorance on the subject as literally hundreds if not thousands of similar depictions have been found in North America over the last several hundred years. Science just managed to declare all previous artifacts “fakes” or simply ignored them.

This is how archaeology works. Theories are promulgated. A consensus is formed and later a paradigm is created.

Evidence that fits the paradigm is catalogued and embraced; evidence that contradicts the paradigm is ignored or falsified. This process is absolute since one countervailing piece of evidence that is permitted to “exist” could weaken or threaten the paradigm.

This is actually how many human systems work to be honest; it’s just that many believe that science is exempt. It is not.

A number of gentle readers of a certain persuasion have asked; where is the scientific evidence, for example of human and dinosaur interaction? Why they ask, haven’t dinosaur fossils ever been found along with evidence of human bones or artifacts? Why are no human fossils found in such and such a strata? We have to assume that these questions are sincere and that they simply don’t know how science works.

Here is a simple case of how science works that may serve to illustrate the paradigm protection apparatus in action.

Frank Calvert (1828–1908) was an English expatriate who was a consular official in the eastern Mediterranean region and an amateur archaeologist. He began exploratory excavations on the mound at Hisarlik (the site of the ancient city of Troy), seven years before the arrival of Heinrich Schliemann. Calvert was the youngest of a family of archaeologists
Wikipedia

“In 1874, Frank Calvert found in a Miocene formation in Turkey (along the Dardanelles) a Deinotherium bone with carved figures of animals upon it. Calvert noted: “I have found in different parts of the same cliff, not far from the site of the engraved bone, a flint flake and some bones of animals, fractured longitudinally, obviously by the hand of man for the purpose of extracting the marrow, according to the practice of all primitive races.” Nature 27 March 1873

This report was made in scientific magazines of the day however; the elephant-like deionotherium was supposedly never seen by modern man. “Modern humans” were supposedly nonexistent in the Age science called the Miocene. On top of that, the deionotherium bone had a number of incised creatures upon it including what people with normal vision might call a dinosaur.
What happened next?

The paradigm protection system went to work.

“In Le Prehistorique, de Mortillet (prominent evolutionist/scientists) did not dispute the age of the Dardanelles formation. Instead he commented that the simultaneous presence of a carved bone, intentionally broken bones, and a flint flake tool was almost too perfect, so perfect as to raise doubts about the finds.” ..Forbidden Archaeology

The following denunciation of the discoveries is a classic of its kind:

“The pretended discovery by Calvert of human prehistoric handiwork in the Miocene of the Dardanelles near Constantinople proves to be unfounded, the supposed tracings on a piece of bone turning out, it is stated, to be merely the eroding work of some crustacean.” Harper’s magazine, Volume 49—Editors Scientific Record, 1874

Finally, here is someone, a scientist, trumpeting the destruction of all evidence proffered by members of their own scientific fraternity of the remote antiquity of man. It should be noted that the Christian view of this phenomena (remote antiquity of man) is that man has existed as long as the world has existed. Here is the “how science works” quote.

“Much of the evidence which had been prominently put forward in support of the high antiquity of man has, during the past few years, been completely abandoned. Thus:—

The Abbeville human jaw from the gravel of the Somme is acknowledged to be “a plant.”

The Paleolithic “beads” of St. Acheul are found to be organisms of the chalk.*

The human bone from the Victoria cavern, which Professor Boyd Dawkins once described as “establishing the fact that man lived in Yorkshire before the glacial period,” and who added, that “the man to whom it belonged was probably devoured by hyenas,” has now been pronounced to be the bone of a bear; \ and a “cut” bone, said to have been found in an undisturbed layer in association with the extinct mammals in the same cave, belongs to a domestic sheep or goat, both of which were unknown in Europe before the Neolithic age.

Some of the artistic drawings upon the fossil bones found in the ThĂŒringen Cave in Switzerland, are now pronounced to be spurious, and the result of intentional deception. The same drawings are contained in a work published six years before the discovery of the cave.

The reputed discovery of relics of man 800 feet deep in a Miocene deposit at the Dardanelles, by Mr. Frank Calvert, is now utterly rejected.

The supposed dressed flints from Miocene beds at Theney,** the “worked ” flints from the Pliocene beds of St. Prest, and the supposed basket-work from lignite, in Switzerland, have all broken down under a searching examination.

And I claim, on the evidence adduced in former papers read before this Society, to have stamped out the evidence of Paleolithic man from the “famous” cavern of Brixham.

But above all we are indebted to the Woodwardian Professor of Geology at Cambridge for the important statement,—that the evidence for the antiquity of man has completely broken down in all cases where it has been attempted to assign him to a period more remote than the post-glacial river gravels.” THE SUPPOSED PALEOLYTHIC IMPLEMENTS OF THE VALLEY OF THE AXE. By NICHOLAS WHITLEY, C.E. 1883

Conclusion: In order to maintain the paradigm science lies to both creationists/Christians as readily as it lies to Evolutionists/Atheists.

We wonder if evolutionists even care? After all, it’s their paradigm that is being preserved.

See Also Mega Fauna Section
The Real Story of Vero Beach Wasn’t Ancient Mammoth Art but Rather; Ancient Mammoth Humans and Mammoth Archaeological Misdirection

The Real Story of Vero Beach Wasn’t Ancient Mammoth Art but Rather; Ancient Mammoth Humans and Mammoth Archaeological Misdirection

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, Giants in Those Days, s8int.com, Science, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jun 24 2011


There could be no better metaphor for modern science, particularly archaeology than Dr. Zaius from the movie “Planet of the Apes”.

When that Minister of Science found the talking human doll in a cave which would have overturned his scientific paradigm he had the cave sealed and the eyewitnesses arrested.

This week, the Huffington Post published a story about ancient mammoth art discovered at Vero Beach Florida which managed to both bury the lead and to seal the real archeological experience of North America in a cave, metaphorically speaking.

The original article announcing this discovery was published in 2009 so it’s a bit of a mystery why this article is being published now. (We had our own article last year). However, here is an offensive quote from the article:

“While prehistoric art depicting animals with trunks has been found in Europe, this may be the first in the Western Hemisphere, researchers report Wednesday in the Journal of Archaeological Science”

Seriously? Are you kidding? There have been literally hundreds of prior discoveries of “prehistoric” art in the Americas depicting animals with trunks. The problem was, mainstream archeology had decided and pronounced that elephants or “animals with trunks” had not lived in North America and so discounted all evidence to the contrary.

A few examples of art depicting animals with trunks are shown at the top of the page. Another famous example is a pictograph discovered in the Grand Canyon in 1924 by Samuel Hubbard Jr. along with dinosaur and human footprints, petrified giant human bodies and pictographs showing dinosaurs. This was the Doheny Expedition and Hubbard had brought along Charles Gilmore, Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology of the Museum of Natural History to certify his discoveries.

In the Vero Beach find we had the same pedantic initial skepticism but this time the paradigm was unable to relegate the piece to the cave and it has been grudgingly accepted. Now the field is trying to feign excitement about it. And what of all those other pieces of trunked art that have been discovered over the past three hundred years? Can you imagine that now that science has to admit that the mammoth was here in ancient times after all that nevertheless this is the first and only representation of the huge creature ever found?

As to burying the lead, Vero Beach, Florida first became famous and controversial back in 1917 when then State Geologist and later Director of the Bureau of Economic Geology, Elias Sellards and colleague reported that they had found numerous bones, fossils, weapons etc. of “modern” men from 10 to 12 feet tall, along with the bones of extinct creatures and giant reptiles in Pleistocene strata. Given that scientific report and the controversy it engendered, why in the world is anyone talking about an etching of a mammoth on bone?

When it comes to the science known as Archaeology, or at least to its practioners, one can learn more from the mammoth paradigm supporting misdirections than one can learn from an incised bone portraying a mammoth…..s8int.com

GIANTS INHABITED FLORIDA IN THE YEAR 123,084 B. C.
State Geologist Sellards and Prof. Hay Concur in Opinion After Study of Fossil Found at Vero-
Say Men Grew 12 Feet Tall.
New Smyrna Daily News Jan. 5, 1917

Background

“Elias Howard Sellards, earned his bachelor’s and master’s degrees in 1899 and 1900, respectively, at the University of Kansas at Lawrence. He was awarded both a scholarship and a fellowship at Yale University, where he completed his doctorate in paleontology in 1903.

After graduating from Yale, Sellards taught geology and mineralogy for a year at Rutgers College, before becoming a professor of geology and zoology at the University of Florida in 1904. In 1907 he was named the first state geologist of Florida and held that position until 1918.” University of Texas Source

He was serving in that position when he found giant human bones near Vero Beach, Florida. He was later to serve as director of the Texas Memorial Museum from 1938 to 1957. In 1932 he became the director of the Bureau of Economic Geology, the source of this information. His discoveries were very controversial both because of the strata where the bones were discovered and because of their size.

Dr. OP Hay, co-discoverer was from the Carnegie Institution.

Smyrna Daily News Jan. 5, 1917–“That human beings inhabited the North American continent more than 125,000 years ago has been conclusively proven through a recent discovery in this state by E. H. Sellards, state geologist, and Prof. Oliver P. Hay who have made a study of the fossil. Though their opinions are not fully concurred in by other scientists, they are positive that their researches have been thorough and there is no room for a mistake.

The discovery was made several months ago, and though nothing of a definite nature had been given out until recently, it is now officially stated that human bones intermingled with those of the mastodon, saber tooth tiger, and many other extinct animals that formerly ranged this hemisphere have been found. The deposit was found near Vero.

That the human beings were of enormous size is evidenced by the bones. It is thought that some were ten or twelve feet in height. Some excellent specimens of the skeleton of these gigantic men have been found, some of them locked in the deadly embrace of great animals, with strange weapons of bone clutched in skeleton hands a foot long.”

Sellards and Hay must have known that their professional reputations would be at stake after such an announcement. Sellards did leave for Texas the following year. But to claim that human remains had been found in North America in the Pleistocene period and of a size that science claims never existed was unprecedented and incredible-twice over. No wonder they waited several months prior to the announcement.

They supposed that so many ancient animals had been found in association with the human bones because they had died together “locked in deadly combat”

A group of six; including anthropologists and geologists quickly arrived on site and eventually wrote a report which was published in Jan-Feb issue of the Journal of Geology. In that report, Sellards is quoted as saying that this was the oldest deposit from which human remains had ever been taken. Note that what Mr. Sellards meant is that these were not the bones of some ape being passed off as a pre-human.

The article continues on: If this research proves to be all that the scientists think it is, the world at large will be astounded to know that many things which had long been suspected are true. (There were giants in those days?)

There are many who believe Bering straight was crossed ages ago by inhabitants of European countries who probably had to flee across the Stnnovoi Mountains of Siberia.

The claims that Sellards and O.P. Hay were making did not sit well with many scientists and the debate raged for many years with the paradigm working to show that the bones really came from a much higher and thus geologically younger strata (intrusion). (Of course, I do not personally agree with the geological timescale the current scientific paradigm advances, either.)

One can find many articles about these discoveries by searching Google for Vero Beach and the Antiquity of man. Rarely if ever do we see Sellards’ claims about the stature of the ancient men addressed. He did not leave himself without testimony however, as photographs of some of the bones, human and animal can be found online at the State of Florida Library website.

Left:Ulna of man, #5895, anterior view]
Publication info: 1916.
Physical descrip:
1 photoprint : b&w ; 5 x 7 in.
Series Title:
(Florida Geological Survey Collection.)
General Note: Used in 8th Annual report, pl.18, fig.2. Found in stratum 3 at Vero.
Date/place captured:
Photographed in February of 1916.

Tibia (right) of man, #5196, and right ulna (left) Canis dirus, #5451] [picture]
Greene, E. Peck.

This source: Lists many news articles and provides other research material descriptions and locations

Sellards defended his findings in among other reports; FLORIDA STATE GEOLOGICAL SURVEY.
E. H. SELLARDS, PH. D., STATE GEOLOGIST. NINTH ANNUAL REPORT.

His Report Conclusion: “The human remains and artifacts are contemporaneous with extinct species of mammals, birds, reptiles, and at least one extinct species of plants, as well as with other animal and plant species that do not at the present time extend their range into Florida. The age of the deposits containing these fossils according to the accepted interpretation of faunas and floras is Pleistocene.”


Epilogue: University of Florida: Epic carving on fossil bone found in Vero Beach

In what a top Florida anthropologist is calling “the oldest, most spectacular and rare work of art in the Americas,” an amateur Vero Beach fossil hunter has found an ancient bone etched with a clear image of a walking mammoth or mastodon.

According to leading experts from the University of Florida, the remarkable find demonstrates with new and startling certainty that humans coexisted with prehistoric animals more than 12,000 years ago in this fossil- rich region of the state.

Source

Bonus Material: Quote from 1884 Re: The Elephant in North America

MAN A CONTEMPORARY WITH THE AMERICAN ELEPHANT.


Perhaps those who are of the opinion that man dwelt here in ancient times contemporaneously with some species of the extinct American elephant, may see in the close proximity and association of the remains of these huge mammalians with the pottery of the ancient Americans, some evidence favoring their theory.

In fact, the huge elephant mound in Grant County, Wisconsin, which must have been made by a people familiar with elephants; and the engravings of elephants on tablets found in mounds; and the recent discovery in the quarry at Carson. Nevada, of human and elephant foot-marks, one human foot- mark being obliterated by the, subsequent passage of an elephant, the foot mark of the latter showing up beautifully, would seem to be evidence sufficient to establish the fact beyond a doubt, that man and some species of American elephant dwelt in ancient America together.

Prof. G-. Frederick Wright conjectures that the so-called human footprints at Carson, Nevada, were those of a bear, made long by lapping of the tracks of the hind feet into those of the fore feet. He thinks some such supposition necessary to account for the large size of the tracks—nineteen inches in length, six inches across the broadest part of the heel, and seven inches at the base of the toes.

He forgets that there were giants in those days, as is proven by the giant skeletons exhumed from mounds in various parts of America. And then, Mr. Wright’s conclusions do not at all tally with the description of these tracks, by those who carefully examined them, which description shows that; these impressions clearly indicate rights and lefts, and deviate to either side from a straight line about as much as the ordinary step of a man. * *

The hollow under the instep is remarkably prominent, and characteristic of the human foot, as is also the curvature around the toes. The impression is exactly like that of an Indian moccasin pressed into shallow mud. No separate impressions of toes are visible, from the fact that the whole interior of the impression clearly appears as if a sandal had been worn. The sharp line corresponding to the cut edge of a piece of hide is visible everywhere.”

Perhaps instead of a mere sandal, a rawhide shoe, with a sole on it, was worn. This would account for other things noticed. The reporter to the New York Weekly Herald of Nov. 18, 1882, further says:

“I was shown by Prof. Harkness, of San Francisco, the tracing of the sole of a shoe, worn by a Sonoran, which measures exactly eighteen and a half inches, just half an inch less than the fossil footprints.”

He further says of the fossil footprints:
“The straddle or distance between rights and lefts varies from almost nothing to sixteen inches. Neither of the above measurements is remarkable when we consider the proportions of the individual, as indicated bv the size of the feet.”

Besides all this evidence that they are human footmarks, is it not more than probable that, if they were those of an animal, the lap of the hind upon the fore-feet tracks would show somewhere, in so many tracks—over one hundred?

Wilford’s Microcosm: Volume 4 – Page 269 1884

s8int-saint

Underwater Cities and Monuments: Submerged “8,000 Year Old Civilization” on Konkan Coast, India?

Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jun 09 2011

Photo: 8000-year-old advanced civilization in Konkan Coast?

One stretch of underwater wall off the Konkan Coast, western India.
The total wall exceeds 24 kilometers (approx. 15 miles)

Source: dnaindia.com
Published: Thursday, May 26, 2011

Are these man-made structures — walls?

Did the Konkan coast from Shrivardhan in Raigad to Vengurla in Sindhudurga host a human habitat around 8000 years ago? Did that population have well-developed engineering skills? Was there a unique Konkan culture in existence in 6000BC?

A new archaeological discovery, below sea level along the Konkan coast, could give answers to these questions. And explorers say the answer could well be a big ‘Yes!’

Researchers have found a wall-like structure that is 24 kilometres long, 2.7 metres tall, and around 2.5 metres wide. The structure shows uniformity in its construction.

“The structure is not continuous throughout the 225 kilometres from Shrivardhan to Raigad, but it is uniform,” said Dr Ashok Marathe, professor, department of archaeology, Postgraduate and Research Institute, Deccan College, Pune.

“It has been found three metres below the present sea level. It has been constructed on the ancient sand beach, which was taken as the base for the construction. Considering the uniformity of the structure, it was obvious that the structure is man-made and not natural.”

The joint expedition carried by Deccan College and the central government’s department of science and technology, was in progress from 2005.

“We were actually studying the impacts of tsunamis and earthquakes on the western coast when we first found this structure in Valneshwar,” said Marathe. “Then we started talking with the locals and fisherfolks and we got news about more such structures below water.”

Marathe added that, the uniformity also shows that the people who built it belong to the same culture from Shrivardhan to Vengurla.
However, deciding the age of the structure was done on the basis of sea level mapping.

“There have been extensive studies about the sea water coming inside the land,” said Marathe. “The wall’s base, that is ancient sand, is about six metres below the present sea level. Based on the calculations, experts from the National Institute of Oceanography found the age of the wall as around 6000 BC.”

According to him, the sea was away from its present coastline in 6000 BC and this wall could have been an effort to prevent the sea water from coming inside the human habitat.

The discovery has raised a number of questions.

How were these huge stones of Laterite and Deccan Trap variety transported to the coast?

What exactly was the purpose behind building the wall?

If the date of the walls is true then is it from around the same time as the Indus Valley Civilisation?

Why has there been no mention of this civilisation till now?

Marathe, who will retire in July 2011, has asked more people to come forward to take his work ahead and to try to find answer to these questions.

See Also Underwater Monuments and Cities Section

The Ancient Earth should have Frozen to Death Billions of Years Ago?

Church of Darwin, s8int.com, Science, Uncategorized | Posted by Chris Parker
Jun 08 2011

“This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.” Genesis 2:4 (NIV)

“Even fools are thought wise if they keep silent, and discerning if they hold their tongues.” Proverbs 17:28

Source:Io9.com
by Alasdair Wilkins

The geological evidence suggests that there have been liquid oceans on Earth dating back at least 3.5 billion years, a fact that was crucial to the emergence of the very first lifeforms. The only problem is that that’s utterly impossible.

Here’s the basic problem.

In the first billion years or so of the Earth’s existence, the Sun would have been considerably dimmer than it is today, perhaps only about 70% of its current brightness. In those days, the Sun wouldn’t have given off enough heat to keep liquid water on Earth’s surface without it freezing back up.

But that’s contradicted by ancient rocks that show clear signs of liquid water dating back that far, not to mention the fact that the earliest ancestors of life apparently began to emerge way back then, and they almost certainly would have needed liquid oceans to do that.

There are a few possible explanations for this little mystery. The Earth might have had a lower albedo back then, meaning that it reflected less of its heat back towards the Sun. The most obvious way to lower the planet’s albedo would be to substantially reduce its cloud cover.

Another possibility is that Earth might have suffered from a runaway greenhouse gas effect, a little bit like what we find on Venus today. Either way, the mystery was big enough to warrant this rather impressive title: “The Faint Young Sun Paradox.”

About a year ago, researchers announced a possible solution to the paradox. They argued that the rocks dating back to that time period showed no evidence of methane or carbon dioxide, two of the most common greenhouse gases. That made the lower albedo theory the clear favorite, and the researchers argued that in the absence of lots of biological particles that would nucleate water droplets, fewer clouds would have formed.

Here’s the problem though – all the researchers did was provide evidence against the greenhouse effect theory, not offer evidence for the lower albedo theory. Researchers Colin Goldlatt and Kevin Zahnle at NASA’s Ames Research Center have now approached the question from the other direction, assessing the logistics of the lower albedo theory. And it really doesn’t look good.

They discovered that no matter how you arrange the clouds, there’s no way that it could have lowered the albedo enough to keep the oceans liquid. According to repeated simulations, the most that Goldlatt and Zahnle could get was about half the necessary heating to keep the water unfrozen.

Specifically, since higher clouds trap heat while lower clouds reflect it, they tried a simulation where there were no lower clouds at all, and even so they say that “even with the strongest plausible assumptions, reducing cloud and surface albedos falls short by a factor of two of resolving the paradox.”

The two best theories to explain why the ancient Earth didn’t freeze have now seemingly been disproved. There’s no easy way out of this paradox, and we may need an entirely new theory to account for it, because this is one of those times where the theoretical and practical evidence seem hellbent on disagreement.

arXiv via Technology Review.

Dinosaur and Human Interaction in Our Times (the New York Times, LA Times, Chicago-Sun Times etc. Historical Newspapers)

Church of Darwin, Crypto, Dinosaurs in Literature, s8int.com, Science, Sophistication of Ancestors, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
Jun 03 2011

Photo: Dr. Requena reports finding artifacts of an unknown, advanced civilization in Venezuela who had sculpted extinct creatures incuding several versions of the diplodocus dinosaur. Modern Mechanix, 1934

by Chris Parker, Copyright 2011
Quoted Headlines and news content in this article are in a blue font

“Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: He calleth them all by names by the greatness of His might, for that He is strong in power; not one faileth” (Isaiah 40:26).

Charles Darwin’s book; “The Origin of the Species; was written back in 1859. The word “dinosaur” had been coined a few years earlier, in 1841 by Sir Richard Owen.

I began a review of the dinosaur and man controversy in the press after that time thinking that perhaps the world of science and news reporting would have still been rather naive and innocent for a time and still willing to report things as they were discovered-without the filter and hold that Darwinism currently holds over both.

Actually, the Darwin free “honeymoon period” proved to be remarkably short, however, scientists did make reports during this period that would ruin the reputation of anyone making such “scientific” claims today.

Some say that you can’t prove a negative; what is true is that when you make a negative proposition, i.e. “blue fairies don’t exist”, the breadth of that statement is universal, while the positive (opposing) side of that argument, i.e. “blue fairies do exist” only has to be shown to be true in one place in the universe to be correct and to simultaneously prove the “negative proposition” incorrect.

Photo: Mesopotamian Cylinder Seal showing sauropods from 300 B.C. The Lovre.

Another example of this type is the proposition that man and dinosaur never interacted. In fact, according to science, they missed each other by 65 million years. This negative proposition must be universal to be true; that is, man and dinosaur never interacted at any time or in any place in this universe.

For the opposing proposition to be true; that man and dinosaur did coexist- it need only be proved that they in fact, did interact at least in one instance at one time and at one place anywhere in the universe.

But we have proof of much more than a single instance in the newspapers and magazines that existed prior to the complete establishment of the Darwin filter.

Advanced Civilization in Venezuela Lived with Dinosaurs
Special Correspondence to the New York Times, Caracas, June 5, 1932 PUBLISHED JUNE, 12 1932
DATES EARLY MAN BACK 8,000 YEARS
Dr. Requena Holds Discoveries Indicate Venezuela Was Civilization’s Cradle
Found Fossilized Skulls—Lake Valencia Relics Show That Makers Were Familiar With Prehistoric Animals

In the early 1930’s Dr. Rafael Requena was an anthropologist affiliated with Academy of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, National Library, National Congress, Central University of Venezuela.

From the above named article:

“Evidence that Venezuela was the cradle of civilization is offered in a volume on his archaeological discoveries which is being published by Dr. Rafael Requena, private secretary to President General Gomez. The publication of this book will lift the veil of secrecy which has shrouded Dr. Requena’s discoveries since they were announced briefly a year ago.

Most startling among the relics unearthed by Dr. Requena from the ancient tombs that dot the shores of Lake Valencia are images of pre-historic animals.

Among these, well sculptured in clay and kiln baked, are models of the diplodocus, a four footed monster with a goose-shaped body, surmounted by a dorsal fin, the neck of a giraffe and the jaws of a crocodile; a gliptodante, a squat four-footed beast with a hideous frog shaped head, bulging eyes and two rows of humps along its back; the prehistoric marine turtle and its equally great land-loving brother and carved from stone, the head of a hadrosaurus.

Alongside these relics were discovered the jaw bone of a dinosaur and pieces of the armor plate of the hadrosaurus
”

Photo:Closeup and comparison of one of Requena’s sauropods. From photo at top of page.


The article goes on to mention that the skulls of the people found at the location had been fossilized. Dr. Requena noted that there appeared to be a high degree of civilization that preceded all other South American civilizations. Dr. Requena, assuming that the current scientific thinking re the age of the dinosaurs was correct, and finding numerous examples of sculptured dinosaurs, reasoned that the civilization and the dinosaurs must have been from 250 million years prior.

In his book he endeavored to link the ancient civilization to Atlantis.

The April, 1934 issue of Modern Mechanix, ran an article about Dr. Requena and his archaelogical discoveries in an article entitled; “Scientists Find Traces of Two Lost Continents”. The pictures that accompany this portion of our article on dinosaurs and man in historical press accounts comes from the Modern Mechanix article.

From that article:


“DOWN through the ages, man has hung to the words of Plato. For Plato told of a great continent, Atlantis by name, which slipped under the waters of the sea, carrying with it an entire civilization.
Recent discoveries point to the fact that approximately 250,000,000 years ago, South America, Africa, India, Australia and a great portion of the Antarctic region were a single continent.

Similar discoveries reveal the existence, until about the same period, of a North Atlantis, a sort of super-continent, which ran from the present western shores of North America to the British Isles, and possibly connected, by a few small peninsulas, with Europe.

Mysterious prehistoric rock writing, recently found in Venezuela by Dr. Rafael Requena, is believed to be the work of people who lived on the lost South Atlantis. In addition to the writings, Dr. Requena has found many relics of a by-gone culture.

They include small statues of humans, with males and females easily distinguished and replicas of animals, many of which resemble the strange dinosaurs which have been dug up in other portions of the world.”

Well, that’s it, right?

The one instance in the world of scientifically verified interaction between man and dinosaur that disproves the proposition that man and dinosaur never lived together? After all, there wasn’t just a single piece that perhaps could have been misinterpreted; there were several sculptures of “diplodocuses” in various poses and sculptures of other dinosaurs and extinct creatures; not discovered by some nameless amateur but by a scientist?

Unfortunately, not as far as “science” is concerned.


On the same continent, over 17,000 and counting “Ica Stones” discovered in 1966 near Ica, Peru; many displaying drawings of dinosaurs and technology such as telescopes etc. and 32,000 Acambaro figurines, many in the shapes of dinosaurs and other extinct or fantastic creatures discovered in 1944 in Acambaro, Mexico have also been ignored by the scientific community.

Dinosaurs and Man in the Gobi Desert

“Roy Chapman Andrews (January 26, 1884 – March 11, 1960) was an American explorer, adventurer and naturalist who became the director of the American Museum of Natural History. He is primarily known for leading a series of expeditions through the fragmented China of the early 20th century into the Gobi Desert and Mongolia. The expeditions made important discoveries and brought the first-known fossil dinosaur eggs to the museum.” Wikipedia


This next series of articles deals with the discoveries of Roy Chapman Andrews in the Gobi desert. Andrews was a well known adventurer scientist of his day whose adventures often made the front pages of the New York Times and newspapers and magazines across the country and the world. It is important to realize that Andrews was not outside of the scientific mainstream but was a part of it. He was always associated with the American Museum of Natural History.

Explorer Finds Remarkable Tools of Stone-Age People
Roy Chapman Andrews, Back from China Describes Prehistoric Life
Miami Herald, August 25, 1925

“Stone implements and weapons of a race of men who lived thousands of years ago among sand dunes on the shore of a lake since swallowed up by the Gobi desert have been found far in the interior of Mongolia by the third Asiatic expedition of the American Museum of Natural History




These primitive men bored the shells and made ornaments of the eggs laid by the dinosaur, the giant reptile that roamed the Asiatic uplands some 10,000,000 years ago
.”

In case you missed it, Chapman believes that man lived with dinosaurs in ages past because they had made ornaments out of dinosaur eggs, something that could only be accomplished with unfossilized dinosaur eggs!

Andrews Expedition
Glasgow Herald, September 9, 1925

“Among the most unique of these discoveries were the various clutches of dinosaur’s eggs, which were unearthed to the number of forty this year and thirty last.



.Fragmentary dinosaur’s eggs figure also among the human relics, for a number of pieces were found which had been cut in regular shapes, presumably to form ornaments for prehistoric belles.”

Humans Coeval with Dinosaur (Coeval: of the same or equal age, antiquity, or duration)
The Spokesman-Review – Aug 19, 1925

Photo: The Mongolians drilled and cracked dinosaur egg shells as well as ostrich egg shells to make jewelry. Ostrich eggshell jewelry is shown here.

“
These primitive men bored the shells and made ornaments of the eggs left by the dinosaur
..They used for the same purpose the egg shells of a gigantic ostrich, long ago extinct”.

Mr. Andrews went on to date the age of the Mongolian dinosaur civilization back to 25 million years ago as science came to move the age of the dinosaurs back further in time. Clearly the Mongolians were coeval with the dinosaurs whenever it was that they lived. Calling them primitive even though no human remains were found was their way of trying to preserve some kind of evolutionary order.

Additional Articles

Only 50,000 Years Old
The Meriden Daily Journal – Jun 18, 1925

“Moscow—Two human skeletons of the Neanderthal type, believed to be at least 50,000 years old recently found in a cave near Crimea.

The skeletons of dinosaurs, hyenas and bears were also found in the cave.”

Prehistoric Game Found
Monsters With Which Ante-dilluvian Man Contended
The Turners Falls Reporter – Dec 16, 1908

“The remains of the Dryopitheous or fossil man discovered on the Bengawan River, in Java mixed as they were with fossil bones of reptiles of the Cainozoic (SIC) age, and lying in the cretaceous strata, clearly prove that man was contemporary with the later of the giant Saurians.


Moreover, the discovery of the Nampa image, a piece of handiwork found in the cretaceous strata in Ada county, Idaho would imply that he had attained some slight degree of art. Assuming then that man was living in the Cainozoic (SIC) age, the question is, how did he survive his acquaintanceship with the gigantic Saurians
.”

Confirms Story of Prehistoric Finds in Kenya Colony—U.S. Anthropologist Says Bones Prove Theory of Man’s First Habitat
In Stone Age Deposit
The Montreal Gazette – Sep 24, 1927

“
.the Cutler dinosaur expedition to Tanganyika, who in six weeks found seven skulls at Nakeru in a Stone Age deposit, and also unearthed a complete skeleton of a six foot man buried twelve feet deep with more than 100 stone tools. Dr. Collie gave a pledge to the discoverer not to discuss the details of the Kenya find until after Dr. Leaky (yes that Dr. Leaky) has published them this fall.

He stressed the importance of the discovery because of the apparently inexhaustible supply of these remains, and the fact that traces of dinosaurs were found. Mr. Leaky was acting for the Royal Society and the Cambridge School of Anthropology, where he is a lecturer.”

The Sunday Tribune – Mar 15, 1925

Petrified Footprints of Man Assured Museum
Evidence of Human Life on American Continent Millions of Years Ago Offers Basis for Speculation
The Deseret News – Jul 24, 1934


“Here are the footprints of the Huntington Man claimed by scientists to have roamed the wilds of Utah nearly 200 million years ago. You will note that the foot widens out at the toes, indicating that the owner of these footprints must have had to walk on soft or miry ground. The prints are almost a foot long, and more than five inches across the toes. The deep mark at the side of the footprints was probably made by the head of a flint spear, resting on marshy ground.


.If these footprints were made when the sand of this period were soft then man must have been there to make them! So if you can, envision wild and woolly men riding tamed herbiverous dinosaurs racing up and down the country

”

In this gentler, less dogmatic Darwinist time, science appeared to be willing to admit that man and dinosaur interacted. The time difficulty enters in because they still accepted the Darwinist geological time scale. When was sandstone formed they believed; 200 million years ago. Therefore they reasoned, man must have been alive 200 million years ago-along with the dinosaurs.

The truth is that the rock formed and the man left his prints and dinosaurs all lived within the last few thousand years.

Unearthed Image Presents a Puzzle
The Calgary Daily Herald – Aug 6, 1924

“A rock image lately unearthed near grand Lake, high in the Colorado Rockies, presents a puzzle. It is a blue granite stone weighing 66 pounds. But what makes it remarkable is that it is covered with carvings indicating a very early period of human life.


The mammoth animals outlined are contemporaneous with the Cro-Magnon age. Among those pictured are prehistoric dinosaurs and mastodons. The main carving represents an early man with hands that have but three fingers. The flat nose pictured is generally associated with a race preceding the Aztecs according to J.A. Jeancon, curator of the Colorado Historical and Natural History Society.” Article

Oldest Footprints in the World
The Portsmouth Sunday Times – Feb 14, 1931

“A number of clearly defined footprints in solid rock have just been discovered in France which are believed to date back from two to three million years and perhaps record the mysterious first man. The face of the rock in which the prints are embodied is criss-crossed with the steps of dinosaurs and similar prehistoric animals and indicates that a terrific struggle once occurred there.

The imprints were, of course made when the rock was soft and then slowly hardened and were preserved for all time. The amazing discovery was made at Bagnoles-de-l’Onrne in Normandy by Dr. Marcel Morin, a well known French scientist.


..Archeologists have been much impressed by this discovery. As a result of their investigations it is suggested that man first appeared in the earlier periods of the Tertiary Age of Mammals, which ranges loosely between two and sixty million years ago.”

How Science Responds to Its Own Discoveries

Nature is Interesting
Footprints in the Rock
Toledo Blade – Nov 1, 1950

By William Holt, a retired member of the faculty of Bowling Green State University and was recognized as one of the leading geologists in the nation.

“Occasionally peculiar shaped depressions in the surface of the bedrock have caused some persons with abnormal imagination, and a lack of geological training, to “see things” in the rock. Human footprints, hand impressions, and even tracks of dinosaurs or other prehistoric animals are recognized (?).

A most interesting case of a foot-print in a slab of surface rock was recently called to my attention. The footprint was in sandstone, and was so real (?) that to some at least there was no doubt that it was actually made by man. The main question seemed to be how many millions of years old it was.

Although I did not see the original, a clear photograph of it was quite sufficient in this case; and I attempted to make the answer clear to the questioners by the following statements:

First, that no human or animal could possibly make a deep imprint in solid, hard rock.

Second, that this particular Ohio bedrock was formed many millions of years before even primitive man existed. Hence no human foot ever could have stepped on the loose sediments of which this rock later was formed.”


William Holt

William is a materialist “scientist” and thus has trained himself not to believe his own lying eyes. In later years he got himself into trouble by reasoning that the IRS didn’t exist and therefore he didn’t have to pay taxes.

In Conclusion:

August 8, 1955 The Le Mars-Globe

“A skeleton found in a gravel pit here—a fairly complete skeleton, has been declared by Dr. Reynold Ruppe, state University of Iowa archaeologist, to be the remains of an ice-age man, who lived near the south edge of the glaciers which once covered Plymouth
County.

The Monona County ice-age man, who lived at least 10,000 years ago, ..was not like a modern Indian. He’s something older—and something new.

Bones of a dinosaur were found in the same deposit—about 10 feet deeper.

At first this led to speculation that the dinosaur was the aborigine’s pet, but that didn’t hang together. Dinosaurs disappeared from the earth a million years before the first, man showed up.

So the dinosaur must have left his bones a long, long time before the man died, was drowned or trapped in quicksand at the spot near, Turin where his skeleton was recovered.”

The reader sitting on the edge of his seat when he initially began to read this was quickly calmed by the explanation that this could not be what it might have seemed to be– he was reminded that there was no evidence that dinosaurs and man ever lived together! Science!

Though this scene in various forms, in various venues and with a variety of potential proofs has no doubt been played out thousands of times in thousands of locales, the Atheist continues to ask “where is the evidence” or “why hasn’t evidence of this interaction ever been found” and many Christians wonder also while nevertheless holding on to their beliefs. The relevant information is being suppressed-sometimes “automatically” because it doesn’t fit the paradigm.

See Also
Man and Dinosaur Co-Existence Proof Accepted by Science–Giant Footprints in Stone–Giant Humans in Stone–All Verified by Orthodox Scientist After 30 Years of Ridicule

After the Flood; A Graveyard Planet-Video

Church of Darwin, Religious, s8int.com, Science, The Flood of Noah, Unexplained Artifact | Posted by Chris Parker
May 07 2011

We Stand on the Shoulders of Those Who Came Before Us –but Also on Their Heads, Backs, Stomachs and Feet! (and etc.) : Prologue Of all that lived prior to the flood; (flora and fauna) w e have burned their bodies or their remains for thousands of years for fuel. We utilize them in our cars and our machines. Their Detritus in their current forms are used to build houses and walls and streets and as binding agents. The mountains that we climb are made up of the remains of microscopic dead animals.

The chemicals that made up the bones of the pre-flood living are used to fertilize our crops and gardens. Their remains may even be worn around our necks or on our fingers as jewelry. This planet is a vast graveyard and the life that existed before the flood is buried or entombed all around us-and are mute witnesses to Genesis.

Movie Made from this s8int.com Article