On Propositioning Atheists, Giant Penguins in the Garden of Eden and How Science Works #173

Posted by Chris Parker
Jul 14 2011


“God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodly behavior and the injustice of human beings who silence the truth with injustice. This is because what is known about God should be plain to them because God made it plain to them. Ever since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities—God’s eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through the things God has made. So humans are without excuse. Although they knew God, they didn’t honor God as God or thank him. Instead, their reasoning became pointless, and their foolish hearts were darkened. While they were claiming to be wise, they made fools of themselves. .” Romans 1

Selfish Genes vs “Skepchick’s” Jeans

It turns out that sometimes Atheists like to gather together in halls and hotels for conferences where they seek to encourage one another in the faith and discuss ways to proselytize. They discuss the sacred writings of their high profs; book, chapter and verse. They listen to speeches (sermons?) from those skilled in dealing with their specific articles of faith and of course they socialize and talk about MythBusters.


Rebecca Watson is a young Atheist who leads a team of “female activists” at Skepchick.org and who gets to travel all over the world delivering talks on science, Atheism, feminism etc. She appears on a number of Atheistic/Skeptical programs and has an internet presence. Considering that she is one of the few female stars in the Atheistic realm she is well known and is apparently sought after as a speaker.

Not long ago she mentioned on a podcast following a conference where she was a panelist with Richard Dawkins a story about being “hit on” in an elevator by a conference attendee. Her comment/request has engendered a fairly nasty response from the Atheist/Skeptic community.

“So I walk to the elevator, and a man got on the elevator with me and said, ‘Don’t take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting, and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee?’

Um, just a word to wise here, guys, uh, don’t do that. You know, I don’t really know how else to explain how this makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I’ll just sort of lay it out that I was a single woman, you know, in a foreign country, at 4:00 am, in a hotel elevator, with you, just you, and–don’t invite me back to your hotel room right after I finish talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner…”

Ms. Watson went on to mention that a number of women she knew did not like to attend these types of conferences because they were “hit on” so frequently and she avowed that this served to limit the number of women in the movement. She went on in a blog about the incident above;

“So here we are today. I am a feminist, because skeptics and atheists made me one. Every time I mention, however delicately, a possible issue of misogyny or objectification in our community, the response I get shows me that the problem is much worse than I thought, and so I grow angrier. I knew that eventually I would reach a sort of feminist singularity where I would explode and in my place would rise some kind of Captain Planet-type superhero but for feminists. I believe that day has nearly arrived.”

Richard Dawkins, the world’s most famous non-believer responded to her advice and concern regarding the elevator incident in a sarcastic message that began;

“Stop whining, will you”? From there it went down hill.

Now, much of the Atheist community is at war (of words). Ms. Watson has received more than 1,300 comments on her site alone and many other acrimonious conversations are taking place elsewhere on the web.

Here’s the thing; why is Ms. Watson surprised by any of this?

As a leader in the Atheistic religion hadn’t she studied its history? Didn’t she know that a powerful force behind the rejection of Christianity and religion in general was “sexual freedom”? It was the burden of morality and the requirement to adhere to societal standards (which drew their inspiration from the Bible and Christianity) that provided a primary motivation for unbelief.

This is something that Christians have been pointing out for decades and that Atheists have tried to argue against; that a powerful motivation for Atheistic beliefs both in the formation of modern Atheism and in many Atheists today is freedom from exogenous moral values.

Aldous Huxley, a famous and influential Atheist of the 1960’s and grandson of ground floor Atheist/philosopher Thomas Huxley explains:

“I had motives for not wanting the world to have meaning; consequently assumed it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption . . The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics; he is also concerned to prove there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do . .

For myself, as no doubt for most of my contemporaries, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation. The liberation we desired was simultaneously liberation from a certain political and economic system and liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom.”—*Aldous Huxley, “Confessions of a Professed Atheist,” Report: Perspective on the News, Vol. 3, June, 1966, p. 19

We could give additional examples but Ms. Watson probably now has hundreds if not thousands of additional, personal examples to draw from. How dare someone, and particularly a woman and particularly one from their own community suggest that there be any restriction on their sexual freedoms? Is she trying to describe a morality that Atheists and particularly male Atheists should have to adhere to, they wonder?

What’s the point in rejecting God if at the end one has to lead a moral life anyway? What’s the point in imagining an entire scheme that makes you an accidental life form in an accidental universe with no one as your boss only to have someone acting as your boss?

No wonder that Dawkins, the titular head of the Darwin party had to step in to try to set things right. As an Atheist, he probably has a hard time even figuring out why she would selfishly say no, anyway. What’s the big whoop he must wonder? Just selfish genes trying to replicate, after all. Dawkins made the notion of selfish genes famous in his 1976 book wherein every action and reaction of man can be seen as selfish genes seeking to propagate themselves. (No doubt many would object to this definition)

The signers of the Declaration of Independence had it right (borrowing from the French) when they said that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, a proposition that would hold true with respect to government for both Christians and Atheists. However, the cornerstone statement in the Declaration is “we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights” supersedes even the consent of the government and places those rights and moral responsibilities in the hands of a greater power, God. Moral systems must be obtained from a higher power than man himself since if all men are equal then they are each equally capable of deciding on their own what is wrong and what is right in their own eyes.

Atheists may accept the idea of government and laws based on the consent of the governed but certainly reject the notion that we are endowed with anything from a Creator. We’re surprised that Ms. Watson, as a high priestess of the faith didn’t know that.
As far as Atheists are concerned, heaven is here on earth and that means they don’t need women (or God) getting in the way of their liberation from restrictions, particularly sexual ones.

On Giant Penguins and Conditions That Must Have Existed in the Garden of Eden and the Early Years of this Planet

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that…Genesis 6:4

In September 2010, UPI.com had a report about a giant penguin fossil discovered in Peru:

“The fossil of a giant red penguin, nearly twice as tall as the largest living species, has been discovered in Peru, U.S. paleontologists say. Standing 5 feet tall, nearly twice the height of an Emperor penguin, the fossil, discovered in Peru’s Reserva Nacional de Paracas and nicknamed Pedro, is 36 million years old, the BBC reported.” UPI, Sept. 30, 2011

For those gentle readers who like to play “stump the creationist”, take note. All penguins do not live in the the Arctic or under Arctic conditions. There are penguins living today in a warm South Africa (rather that a cold South Pole) for instance and that’s how Noah found penguins in “Palestine” for the ark.


Science has given these giant penguins its own species name but the fact of the matter is; they are simply penguins. If you were to see one today you would recognize it not as some evolutionary predecessor to the penguin, but as a penguin—albeit a very large one. These giant creatures of the earth’s past are an unexamined and an unexplained problem for the theory of evolution and the life of this planet.

When Genesis reports that there were giants in those days, I think many Christians assume that the text suggests that some of the people in those days were giants and that some survived after the flood. Fossil evidence suggests an alternative; perhaps every creature was created as a relative giant in those days and after the flood, some vestiges of the time of the giant creatures remained.

Fossil evidence suggests that besides giant reptiles, there were giant turtles, penguins, clams, humans, dogs, sheep, fish, deer, rodents, rhinos, insects, birds etc. in the past life of this planet. These giant creatures are as recognizable as are there smaller relatives living today. Evolution does not explain why there was a period in the earth’s history when all creatures were gigantic forms of the same creatures living today.

Kansas giant print 44 inches long-from Valley of the Giants by C.N. Dougherty.

Mary Leakey was one of the discoverers of chimpanzee bone fragments which became known as Lucy which was put forward by paleontologists as a human ancestor back in the early 1970s. You remember that. You don’t remember that her husband Louis Leakey found an “inexhaustible supply of human bones” along with “traces of dinosaurs” in Kenya at Nakeru back in the 1920s because that’s how “science” works. Source: The Montreal Gazette – Sep 24, 1927

Louis Leaky made an even more amazing discovery in keeping with our giant penguins and Garden of Eden theme. As reported in the New York Times of May 11, 1958 Leakey discovered the complete skeletons of gigantic animals along with evidence of giant humans at Olduvai Gorge in East Africa. The New York Times article was entitled; “Gigantic Fossils of Animals Found, East African Expert Cites Sheep as Big as Horses, Hogs with Elephant-Like Tusks”.

Here are excerpts from the article:

“London May 10—The remains of gigantic animals, including sheep as big as present-day carthorses and hogs with tusks like elephants have been dug out of an ancient gorge at Olduvia, in East Africa.

Two giant human teeth have also been found….”

“…Specimens have been brought to London for comparative studies by the man who found them. He is Dr. Louis S.B. Leakey, director of the Coryndon Museum at Nairobi, Kenya.”

“….But the most remarkable character of the Chellean Age was he says, the gigantic size of the animals existing at that time. Dr. Leakey has found the complete skeleton of a Pleistocene sheep with a horn-span of fourteen feet. It was about as big as a big cart-horse, he says. He has also unearthed the bones of wild hogs the size of a rhinoceros with elephant sized tusks.

He has found a giant giraffe, baboons as big as modern gorillas, massive zebras and antelopes. But his most important find from the point of view of the evolution of man is two giant teeth. They are either from a Chellean child or they are from another species of man hunted and eaten by cannibalistic Chelleans. (They appeared to be primary or “baby” teeth).

They are undoubtedly human and larger than any previously discovered. One molar is bigger than that of the mature molars of Peking Man (up to 9 feet tall).” NYT

Leakey attributed the gigantic size of the animals of this time with “trace elements” washed down into the gorge and then consumed by the animals of the gorge.


Despite their protestations to the contrary, Darwinists have no answer for these gigantic versions of currently existing animals. A beaver the size of a modern black bear; an armadillo the size of a Volkswagen, giant oysters in the mountains of Peru 12 feet wide, a type of deer 7 feet tall at the shoulder 8 foot roly poly’s, dragon flies with two foot wingspans, a super croc the size of a boxcar, rodents the size of a bull are outside of current Darwinian understanding to say nothing of 5 foot penguins.

Many of these creatures simply couldn’t exist or function under current gravitational conditions. Sauropods likely could not have lifted their heads. Argentavis magnificens, an eagle like raptor and the largest bird ever discovered could not have flown under current gravity conditions. Very ancient depictions of mastodons show them galloping like a horse. Currently living elephants are too big to run or gallop.


The question is when did these creatures live in the history of this planet? From an evolution perspective; what evolutionary advantage would giant versions of today’s animals have over there smaller cousins? Why is the only difference between the gigantic animals of yesterday and today’s smaller versions their size? Where are the other adaptations that must have taken place over allegedly millions of years? Why would they evolve to large size and then to small?

A 1987 article in Time Magazine might provide a clue; it was entitled Putting On Ancient Airs”, and informed that “two scientists stunned colleagues by reporting that 80 million years ago, (sic) the earth’s atmosphere contained about 50% more oxygen than it does now.”


Geochemists Gary Landis of the U.S. Geological Survey and Robert Berner of Yale were able to measure ancient air trapped in amber. Naturally we don’t subscribe to the age given as 80,000,000 years ago, but it does raise the possibility that at one time on this planet there was much more oxygen to breathe in the atmosphere than there is now. The comparison is 21% oxygen today vs. up to 35% oxygen in the past.

Why did gigantic versions of man and creature live in the earth’s past? Genesis provides the best answer; there were giants in those days…

‘Monstrously Big Ant’ Fossil Found in Wyoming
Giant “Sea Monster” Fossil Discovered in Arctic
Scientists Discover Giant Penguin Fossil (Video)
Giant wombat fossil found (Science Alert)
Giant Ant Fossil Unearthed: Big Pic : Discovery News
Arnold Schwarzenbunny: Giant Rabbit Fossil Found

Spanish island yields giant rabbit fossil – UPI.com

Giant snake fossil hints at a hotter future – environment -
Giant spider fossil found in Mongolia – The Mumpsimus Blog site
Giant Beaver Fossils with Facts and Pictures.
Scientists Discover “Giant Fossil Frog from Hell” –
Giant Condor Fossil | Flickr –
Discovery of a giant fossil bird with teeth – PetHobbyist.com Site …
Cryptomundo » Giant Fossil Rodent Discovered
Giant Stork Fossil was found in Flores, Indonesia. – Cultural …

Giant prehistoric fish species found in forgotten fossils (Wired UK)
Fossil of Giant Crocodile Found in Cuba « Repeating Islands
[News]: Ark. students discover giant cephalopod fossil
Pampatheriidae (Fossil Giant Armadillos) | Skulls Unlimited …
Giant Clam Shell Fossil
Giant Fossil ‘Strange Shrimp’ Found
Amblyrhiza Inundata: Giant Fossil Rat- Anguilla Local News
400-Million-Year-Old Mystery: Giant Tree-like Object in Epoch
Giant Tree Fossils

How Science Works #173

First of all, we have no idea whether we’ve correctly numbered these “How Science Works” articles. That’s how we work.

Recently, we noted that archaeologists had virtually been forced to acknowledge that an incised bone discovered at Vero Beach Florida was an actual ancient artifact that proved that elephants or mastodons had lived in North America in the ancient past.

They then declared it to be the first such representation in North America. We can’t figure out if that is a bold faced lie or simply a demonstration of real ignorance on the subject as literally hundreds if not thousands of similar depictions have been found in North America over the last several hundred years. Science just managed to declare all previous artifacts “fakes” or simply ignored them.

This is how archaeology works. Theories are promulgated. A consensus is formed and later a paradigm is created.

Evidence that fits the paradigm is catalogued and embraced; evidence that contradicts the paradigm is ignored or falsified. This process is absolute since one countervailing piece of evidence that is permitted to “exist” could weaken or threaten the paradigm.

This is actually how many human systems work to be honest; it’s just that many believe that science is exempt. It is not.

A number of gentle readers of a certain persuasion have asked; where is the scientific evidence, for example of human and dinosaur interaction? Why they ask, haven’t dinosaur fossils ever been found along with evidence of human bones or artifacts? Why are no human fossils found in such and such a strata? We have to assume that these questions are sincere and that they simply don’t know how science works.

Here is a simple case of how science works that may serve to illustrate the paradigm protection apparatus in action.

Frank Calvert (1828–1908) was an English expatriate who was a consular official in the eastern Mediterranean region and an amateur archaeologist. He began exploratory excavations on the mound at Hisarlik (the site of the ancient city of Troy), seven years before the arrival of Heinrich Schliemann. Calvert was the youngest of a family of archaeologists…Wikipedia

“In 1874, Frank Calvert found in a Miocene formation in Turkey (along the Dardanelles) a Deinotherium bone with carved figures of animals upon it. Calvert noted: “I have found in different parts of the same cliff, not far from the site of the engraved bone, a flint flake and some bones of animals, fractured longitudinally, obviously by the hand of man for the purpose of extracting the marrow, according to the practice of all primitive races.” Nature 27 March 1873

This report was made in scientific magazines of the day however; the elephant-like deionotherium was supposedly never seen by modern man. “Modern humans” were supposedly nonexistent in the Age science called the Miocene. On top of that, the deionotherium bone had a number of incised creatures upon it including what people with normal vision might call a dinosaur.
What happened next?

The paradigm protection system went to work.

“In Le Prehistorique, de Mortillet (prominent evolutionist/scientists) did not dispute the age of the Dardanelles formation. Instead he commented that the simultaneous presence of a carved bone, intentionally broken bones, and a flint flake tool was almost too perfect, so perfect as to raise doubts about the finds.” ..Forbidden Archaeology

The following denunciation of the discoveries is a classic of its kind:

“The pretended discovery by Calvert of human prehistoric handiwork in the Miocene of the Dardanelles near Constantinople proves to be unfounded, the supposed tracings on a piece of bone turning out, it is stated, to be merely the eroding work of some crustacean.” Harper’s magazine, Volume 49—Editors Scientific Record, 1874

Finally, here is someone, a scientist, trumpeting the destruction of all evidence proffered by members of their own scientific fraternity of the remote antiquity of man. It should be noted that the Christian view of this phenomena (remote antiquity of man) is that man has existed as long as the world has existed. Here is the “how science works” quote.

“Much of the evidence which had been prominently put forward in support of the high antiquity of man has, during the past few years, been completely abandoned. Thus:—

The Abbeville human jaw from the gravel of the Somme is acknowledged to be “a plant.”

The Paleolithic “beads” of St. Acheul are found to be organisms of the chalk.*

The human bone from the Victoria cavern, which Professor Boyd Dawkins once described as “establishing the fact that man lived in Yorkshire before the glacial period,” and who added, that “the man to whom it belonged was probably devoured by hyenas,” has now been pronounced to be the bone of a bear; \ and a “cut” bone, said to have been found in an undisturbed layer in association with the extinct mammals in the same cave, belongs to a domestic sheep or goat, both of which were unknown in Europe before the Neolithic age.

Some of the artistic drawings upon the fossil bones found in the Thüringen Cave in Switzerland, are now pronounced to be spurious, and the result of intentional deception. The same drawings are contained in a work published six years before the discovery of the cave.

The reputed discovery of relics of man 800 feet deep in a Miocene deposit at the Dardanelles, by Mr. Frank Calvert, is now utterly rejected.

The supposed dressed flints from Miocene beds at Theney,** the “worked ” flints from the Pliocene beds of St. Prest, and the supposed basket-work from lignite, in Switzerland, have all broken down under a searching examination.

And I claim, on the evidence adduced in former papers read before this Society, to have stamped out the evidence of Paleolithic man from the “famous” cavern of Brixham.

But above all we are indebted to the Woodwardian Professor of Geology at Cambridge for the important statement,—that the evidence for the antiquity of man has completely broken down in all cases where it has been attempted to assign him to a period more remote than the post-glacial river gravels.” THE SUPPOSED PALEOLYTHIC IMPLEMENTS OF THE VALLEY OF THE AXE. By NICHOLAS WHITLEY, C.E. 1883

Conclusion: In order to maintain the paradigm science lies to both creationists/Christians as readily as it lies to Evolutionists/Atheists.

We wonder if evolutionists even care? After all, it’s their paradigm that is being preserved.

See Also Mega Fauna Section
The Real Story of Vero Beach Wasn’t Ancient Mammoth Art but Rather; Ancient Mammoth Humans and Mammoth Archaeological Misdirection

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